Capturing the spirit of debate

The creator of this video nailed a recurring theme we’ve heard during the primary campaign. Stick it out – there’s fun towards the end.

H/T to Wigderson Library & Pub. (Who saw it here who saw it here.)

Comments

  1. Shawn Matson says:

    All copycats of Obama. Remember that Obama music video you posted a week or so back? There’s a McCain spoof out. I spit my coffee all over.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gwqEneBKUs

  2. My friend from NYC just e-mailed me the link you show.

    I thought it was kind of a miss, though. The one above is a one-man show using debate footage. The one you gave is a COPY of the earlier Obama – but instead of poking fun like parodies usually do, this one is on the same side. Message aside, it missed artistically, I think.

    If, on the other hand, you want to debate the war, we’ll start a new post for that. I never turn away an opportunity to give my opinion!

  3. Shawn Matson says:

    Well it’s an amateur video so I wouldn’t hold it up to the other one.

  4. Maybe I should have used the word “conceptually” instead of artistically.

    Like my friend said, it was “a one-joke hit that went about 45 seconds too long.”

  5. Shawn Matson says:

    If I was drafted for the Iraq boondoggle, i’d file as a conscientious objector.

    If that didn’t work, there are other means to that end.

    I refuse to serve in a war that was predicated by technocrats, that has been totally discredited, for which there is no longer (and never was) a coherent argument for.

    I will not serve in a campaign of terror–in the name of expunging terrorism.

    I will not deny the political sovereignty of other nations and then insist that our borders must not be bridged by Mexicans and Arabs alike.

    I will not support a war that has torn apart thousands of American families and hundreds of thousands of Iraq families, and directed the cross hairs of terrorists more firmly on our shores.

    While I am a peaceful person, I wouldn’t refuse to serve in all situations.

    Serving our nation is one of the greatest sacrifices that one can make. But galvanizing and entrenching our nation further in Vietnam II is not, never was, and never will be in our interests.

    I will serve our nation if my service fulfills our national interests.

    I don’t think there’s any coincidence that donations from military families are going overwhelmingly to Ron Paul and Barack Obama, the two most antiwar candidates.

  6. “donations from military families…”

    Can you back that up? I’m very curious.

  7. Shawn Matson says:
  8. Knew you’d have it. Thanks.

  9. Shawn Matson says:

    You wish, Dan. I was sloppy and linked to an old article. Here’s a newer article.

    http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_aaron_gl_080205_military_donors_favo.htm

    http://warcomeshome.org/content/military-donors-favor-antiwar-candidates

    No matter if it’s not a huge percentage of military donations it still is the largest percentage.

    And I don’t think Q4 figures have been released yet, so expect those numbers to get bigger.

  10. In general I’m avoiding reading much on the web because I remember in the past national elections that I got so angry and irritated by the liberal left- wingers that it was affecting my daily composure. I find the kind of drivel that someone like Shawn writes to be so goofy because they base their opinions on what they read in the liberal press and on liberal websites. If one actually does some serious study of unbiased resources, one will discover that it is the agenda of Islam to convert the entire world and by the sword if necessary. The fight in Iraq has major consequences for the future and there are over 20 fights going on around the world between Muslims and non-Muslims as Islam has become very active. It’s fight or convert…and that’s the fact of the matter. Most liberals would give up the traditional life of America in favor of either socialism, communism, anythingism other than a free society. I can’t understand how they think these failed alternate systems would be better for us…but they do and I guess they think they would somehow be the elite and would be exempt from what would happen. Shawn will grow up someday and God forbid that it will have to be under sharia law! He needs to watch films of what was going on politically in the late 30’s and the ultimate sacrifices that were made by our people serving in the military. Perhaps he needs to read about the sacrifices on Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Canada seems to beckon instead of sacrifice for too many youngsters these days. I don’t believe we could win a WWII war with our current citizenry. Before you say I’m crazy…take a look at Europe!

  11. Shawn Matson says:

    I was waiting for El Gato’s reliable and routine response. Business as usual: “drivel,” “sharia law,” “liberal press.”

    Might I ask what your unbiased rescources are? Glenn Beck, your right-wing loverboy?

    I do accept the fact that Islamic Extremists are out to kill Americans. But Grant, you forgot that Saddam Hussein was a secular man who ran a secular government. No Iraq is a viper’s nest of terrorist breeding. Maybe if you read some unbiased sources instead of your right-wing propaganda, you’d learn the truth about Saddam–an all-around bad man, but a secular. Why do you think we enlisted him in our fight against the Shah of Iran? Woops!

    And your lecture about not being able to fight another World War II is not only tiring, but inaccurate. My great grandfather narrowly escaped death on Okinawa more than once. He enlisted to fight an enemy that shamelessly attacked us at Pearl Harbor.

    You have some nerve comparing the people like my grandfather who came to the defense of their nation in World War II to an Iraq war that was predicated by corporate interests, for which there was no real reason other than oil.

    But since we were attacked at Pearl Harbor, whereas we were not attacked by Iraq, you really don’t have any right comparing the two wars.

    Iraq reads Vietnam more than World War II.

    We weren’t attacked by anyone with ties to Iraq. We were atacked by 15 Saudis, 1 Lebanese, 1 Egyptian, and 2 from United Arab Emirates on September 11th–a fact that even President Bush now admits.

    But we chose to invade Iraq, Senor El Gato? Please explain to me (without talking points) how that makes sense.

  12. Shawn, now you’re talking foolish! You are sticking up for Saddam and ignoring the fact that he was a brutal dictator just like Hitler. We did the right thing in taking him down. I own the book “Saddam’s Secrets” by Iraqi General Georges Sada.
    Why don’t you read it and then tell me how great Iraq was under the secular Saddam. We’re not fighting the Iraqis. We are their allies and we’re fighting Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters, many of whom are from other Arab countries. We ARE doing the right thing…just as we did the right thing to liberate Europe and the Far East in WWII. Mistakes are made in war, especially when fighting cowards who wear civilian clothes and hide among the populace. My “right” is that it is the proper thing to do to defend those who cannot defend themselves from oppressors. You spew out all the liberal “talking points” but I stand on the decency of our leaders who try to spread democracy and freedom in a crappy world. Cowardice in the face of oppression is just what they hope for! You have no “life experience” to give your positions credibility, but because of the courage of generations of Americans who gave their all,you have the right to express them. I enlisted in the Army to serve my country in 1957 when there was the possibility of becoming involved in conflict. You would cry “conscientious objector” instead of giving your country something. Remember what JFK said?

  13. Shawn Matson says:

    Thanks for twisting my words as I knew you would. I said, “Saddam was an all-around bad guy–but secular.”

    I never said Iraq was great under his rule. But you like to twist words, of course!

    What can I do for my country? Speak out against imperialism and leading our nation down a path towards nation-building.

    What can I do for my country? Refuse to take part in a campaign that is totally shredding our image around the world.

    I’m a little sick of the “Iraqis were helpless–we needed to help them” argument. Why aren’t we in Darfur? Why aren’t we in Kenya? Why aren’t we in Indonesia? Why aren’t we in Eastern Europe?

    In the spectrum of atrocities occurring right now in the world, Iraq was on the more moderate side. That argument is an excuse because all other excuses for this war have been discredited.

    El Gato, i’ll believe that the reason we’re in Iraq is because we’re trying to help the Iraqis when we haven’t intervened in places where way worse things have happened.

    Oh and what about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that have died as a result of US Presence?

    Here’s a study that estimates how many Iraqis have died: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442.html

    And that is a report from a year and a half ago. Most people agree that’s a lot more than Saddam murdered in all his rule.

    http://www.iraqfoundation.org/news/2003/ajan/27_saddam.html

    Hey El Gato, let’s make a deal. I’ll buy you airfare to Baghdad if you go and tell everyone you see that we’re there to help.

    I’m going to make it a one-way ticket cause I don’t think you’ll be coming back…

  14. I guarantee you the Washington Post is liberal! Give me something from the Washington Times. I’m going to stop debating this with you because liberals never make rational statements, and it’s beneath me to argue with a kid who has nothing to back his arguments up other than someone else’s poison that he’s ingested. You can see why I don’t want to get involved in these discussions! I know I’m right in the way I feel and that is it pointless to debate the God-haters, the America-haters, etc. Don’t say you don’t hate America because your comments prove where your patriotism is. If we were to go into any of those countries you mention, you and your ilk would be saying the same things you’re saying about Iraq, Vietnam, etal. Boring! And with that I end MY participation in this. I think you have to get back to homeroom now anyhow.

  15. Given this thread is titled “Capturing the spirit of debate” I guess you two did!

    Shawn, excellent technique. Near miss (or good cover?) with the second link. Whether anyone agrees with you or not, I’m very glad you are making the effort. (Happy thoughts about America’s future based on the ability of the young ‘uns.)

    El gato, I see what you mean. You are very passionate about defending America. I feel the same way.

  16. “There are three kinds of patriots, two bad, one good. The bad ones are the uncritical lovers and the loveless critics. Good patriots carry on a lover’s quarrel with their country, a reflection of God’s lover’s quarrel with all the world.”
    –William Sloane Coffin

  17. Shawn Matson says:

    El Gato, is the Guardian too liberal for you?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/oct/11/iraq.iraq

    How about Baylor? That’s pretty much the most conservative educational institute you might find before stepping into Bob Jones U.

    http://www.baylor.edu/lariat/news.php?action=story&story=49109

    It’s REALLY easy to say that an article isn’t credible because it comes from a “liberal” source. Well, look at the Baylor source–a conservative source that you can’t really dispute.

    Dan, I gave you a link that showed that as of October the military contributions had ballooned even farther, so the whole 44 contributions argument is kind of over.

    As for me, I am a patriot. Just because I don’t support an illegal war, doesn’t mean I hate America. I love America–a place that respects other nations and secures the blessings of our liberties.

    And as for a Save Darfur T-shirt, I don’t own one. I actually donate dollars to help with international aid. And i’ve done things like hold fundraisers for various organizations: Take a Soldier to the Movies is a prime example.

    It’s so easy to shred someone apart because they are speaking out, hoping to save the lives of millions of human beings. But sometimes what is easy isn’t what is right.

    I remember those images of the Saddam posters and statues being destryoed. That was what, 7 years ago. Now we have images of an Iraqi woman in an ambulance next to her daughter who was napalmed screaming, “Just give us Saddam back, we had electricity and schools and no war.” When I saw that video, I cried. When i saw that video, I was convinced that the benefits don’t outweigh the horriffic toll.

    http://www.mpac-ng.org/images/archive/iraqi_children.jpg

    Those are the children who will never have a regular life because of what we’ve done. Imagine being that child. Would you give up your arms and legs for a foreign nations to spend 7 years pillaging your nation?

    Don’t you dare question my patriotism. I love this nation and I love this world. That’s why my defense of our troops goes beyond a yellow sticker on the bumper of my car.

    I pray and hope and demand that our soldier are brought home, out of harm’s way. We’ve violated the covenant that we have with our troops: that they volunteer to put their lives on the line, but in return we agree to do it only when absolutely necessary.

    A patriot is someone who stands up for what they believe in even if it’s unpopular. That’s what our forefathers did in 1776.

    They led a revolt–an unpopular revolt–because they believed that Democracy was the only government that was just.

    It just might be unpopular to speak out against the war, but it sure as hell isn’t unAmerican.

  18. Good to see passionate debate on both sides, it’s what America was and is all about. Although, Shawn, I did have to ask you about one fact on Saddam – “Why do you think we enlisted him in our fight against the Shah of Iran?” The Shah was a staunch US ally, and when Pahlavi was overthrown, the downward spiral of Islamic extremism gripped the country. The Iraq/Iran war started some 2.5 years after that.

  19. Dan, thanks for your observations. Shawn is just a boy and has much to learn. His “illegal” war was supported by his liberal heroes in the Senate until it got challenging. General Sherman said it best when he said “War is hell”. Liberals would like war to be like a paintball party. Shawn’s comments about the horrors of Iraq now completely ignore what it was like under “the butcher of Baghdad’ because it’s convenient to do so. Maybe this link will remind him of something he would like to forget. For someone without an income I wonder how much he gives for international aid. I’m sure glad he has a fundraiser to “take a soldier to the movies”. They must love that from a guy who wouldn’t serve with them! His points are laughable and quite ignorable when you come right down to it. Think of the monkeys on our college campuses and then think of what the future holds!

  20. Ah BrkfldDad, I missed that one and it’s critical because it shows just how brainwashed and uninformed he is. Follow the bouncing ball in the Washington Post and the NY Times children! Thanks!

  21. El gato, can you stick to attacks on the points and not the person please? I’m trying to reject labels and hope you will try, too.

  22. Shawn Matson says:

    Sorry, i made an error. It’s not that I am brainwashed I made an error. I meant post-shah iran.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran-Iraq_war

    Anyways, thanks for catching that without ad hominem, BrkfldDad.

    My liberal heroes in the Senate all voted against the war, bub. Russ Feingold, Ted Kennedy, and Paul Wellstone. Obama wasn’t in the Senate but spoke out against it during his Senate run.

    You wish I was a stereotype whose socialist knuckles knock on your windows at night, El Gato, but your Red Scare doesn’t have to be–i’m not the guy you wished I was.

  23. That’s why I’m trying to avoid these blogs! I want to belly up to them and let them know just how I feel about their views in no uncertain terms, and I think the views reflect the person…so I go for the jugular! I’ll write on my blackboard 1000 times….
    “I must avoid pointless conflicts with liberals”. Believe it or not…I have friends who think exactly like I do. Must be the sound of Rolling Thunder!

  24. Shawn and I finally agree on one thing…he’s not the guy I wish he was.

  25. OK you two. You’re done now.

  26. Shawn Matson says:

    That was a good one, i’ll give you that.

  27. No problem Shawn. We may not always agree, but I find you refreshing. Agree or not, you are passionate about your beliefs and I sure wish all college freshmen were as politically active and expressive as you are. It would actually represent a nice beacon of hope for the future.

  28. Shawn, ya made me chuckle!

  29. Wow, Shawn i definately have to applaud your performance on here, you are obviously the most informed about the subject, and i completely and undoubtedly would call you a patriot, and the people that argue with you sheep, and guess what guys, you sheep can serve in the military for illegal wars if you want to, but that doesn’t mean you can call yourselves patriots.

    The founders wouldn’t want you to just join some war, (in which i agree with Shawn that resembles Vietnam very much so, and not WWII) they would want you to stop a second and think about things.