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	<title>Comments on: Good grief, what is it with Wisconsin teachers?</title>
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	<link>http://fairlyconservative.com/2008/04/09/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/</link>
	<description>To a sufficient degree; in an evenhanded manner.</description>
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		<title>By: Libby</title>
		<link>http://fairlyconservative.com/2008/04/09/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3069</link>
		<dc:creator>Libby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fairlyconservative.com/wisconsin/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3069</guid>
		<description>&quot;...lots of parents who will neglect, whether intentionally or not, to tell their children about this if another responsible adult doesn’t do it first&quot;

Casey,

That is my entire point.  We allow parents to neglect it, because we have given them the impression that if they don&#039;t address it someone else will simply pick up the slack at school.  If the curriculum was taken out of the schools and responsibility was put back on the home, then parents would know they have no one other than themselves.

HG&amp;D curriculum has been around a lot longer than you can imagine.  I still recall being in the music room (with my parents...because they were at least REQUIRED to attend back then) when I was in 6th grade in the late 70&#039;s.  Ready for a shock?  Having sex in the back stairwells of our schools is not new to your &quot;generation.&quot;  The same rumors swirled when I was at East in the &#039;80&#039;s.  So we are talking about over 30 years of HG&amp;D curriculum in the schools that I am aware of.  Looking back, can we honestly say that it has helped?  If awareness is the cure...are we seeing a significant decrease in sexual activity among teenagers/pre-teens?  Evidently not, since you and others are arguing that it needs to be addressed in the schools because it is so prevalent. 

We must hold parents accountable for their children&#039;s education...and we must teach children to be accountable for their actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;lots of parents who will neglect, whether intentionally or not, to tell their children about this if another responsible adult doesn’t do it first&#8221;</p>
<p>Casey,</p>
<p>That is my entire point.  We allow parents to neglect it, because we have given them the impression that if they don&#8217;t address it someone else will simply pick up the slack at school.  If the curriculum was taken out of the schools and responsibility was put back on the home, then parents would know they have no one other than themselves.</p>
<p>HG&amp;D curriculum has been around a lot longer than you can imagine.  I still recall being in the music room (with my parents&#8230;because they were at least REQUIRED to attend back then) when I was in 6th grade in the late 70&#8217;s.  Ready for a shock?  Having sex in the back stairwells of our schools is not new to your &#8220;generation.&#8221;  The same rumors swirled when I was at East in the &#8217;80&#8217;s.  So we are talking about over 30 years of HG&amp;D curriculum in the schools that I am aware of.  Looking back, can we honestly say that it has helped?  If awareness is the cure&#8230;are we seeing a significant decrease in sexual activity among teenagers/pre-teens?  Evidently not, since you and others are arguing that it needs to be addressed in the schools because it is so prevalent. </p>
<p>We must hold parents accountable for their children&#8217;s education&#8230;and we must teach children to be accountable for their actions.</p>
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		<title>By: Casey</title>
		<link>http://fairlyconservative.com/2008/04/09/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3068</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fairlyconservative.com/wisconsin/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3068</guid>
		<description>Libby,

I understand your concern as a parent, and you are correct in that Shawn and I are not parents. However, please understand that our input is just as valuable because we walked these halls with your children in recent years. We grew up in this system and have not been out of it long. Rather than playing guessing and/or cover up games of what really happens in the schools, Shawn and I knew how it was and know how it is. We are trying to open eyes by saying &quot;hey, this really happens, and yes, kids really get hurt.&quot; I think we are all working towards the same goal: health and safety of the children in this district. But alas, our methods of meeting it are different. 

Not to sound crass, but kids can&#039;t go boating without life jackets or  digging for power lines in a school bathroom or stairwell. They are addressing something that really happens in the schools. 

Human Growth and Development is a standard part of various grade levels in the Elmbrook health/science curriculum and it has been since my brother and I were in the elementary schools back in the early 90&#039;s. This isn&#039;t introducing a new concept or radical change to the education; it&#039;s tacking something else on to what is already taught. 

It&#039;s frustrating that some questions go unanswered, as you mentioned. A friend of mine noted recently that back in 8th grade, when a student asked the teacher about oral sex during HG&amp;D, the did not answer it, citing that they couldn&#039;t because it was not part of the curriculum. Seeing as some kids were already doing it in 8th grade, why shouldn&#039;t they know the risks?

I think it&#039;s tough to let the district take over teaching such touchy and personal subjects such as this. In the same respect, there are lots of parents who will neglect, whether intentionally or not, to tell their children about this if another responsible adult doesn&#039;t do it first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Libby,</p>
<p>I understand your concern as a parent, and you are correct in that Shawn and I are not parents. However, please understand that our input is just as valuable because we walked these halls with your children in recent years. We grew up in this system and have not been out of it long. Rather than playing guessing and/or cover up games of what really happens in the schools, Shawn and I knew how it was and know how it is. We are trying to open eyes by saying &#8220;hey, this really happens, and yes, kids really get hurt.&#8221; I think we are all working towards the same goal: health and safety of the children in this district. But alas, our methods of meeting it are different. </p>
<p>Not to sound crass, but kids can&#8217;t go boating without life jackets or  digging for power lines in a school bathroom or stairwell. They are addressing something that really happens in the schools. </p>
<p>Human Growth and Development is a standard part of various grade levels in the Elmbrook health/science curriculum and it has been since my brother and I were in the elementary schools back in the early 90&#8217;s. This isn&#8217;t introducing a new concept or radical change to the education; it&#8217;s tacking something else on to what is already taught. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s frustrating that some questions go unanswered, as you mentioned. A friend of mine noted recently that back in 8th grade, when a student asked the teacher about oral sex during HG&amp;D, the did not answer it, citing that they couldn&#8217;t because it was not part of the curriculum. Seeing as some kids were already doing it in 8th grade, why shouldn&#8217;t they know the risks?</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s tough to let the district take over teaching such touchy and personal subjects such as this. In the same respect, there are lots of parents who will neglect, whether intentionally or not, to tell their children about this if another responsible adult doesn&#8217;t do it first.</p>
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		<title>By: Libby</title>
		<link>http://fairlyconservative.com/2008/04/09/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3066</link>
		<dc:creator>Libby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fairlyconservative.com/wisconsin/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3066</guid>
		<description>Quotable,
I do not recall a request for parent feedback.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quotable,<br />
I do not recall a request for parent feedback.</p>
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		<title>By: Quotable</title>
		<link>http://fairlyconservative.com/2008/04/09/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3063</link>
		<dc:creator>Quotable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fairlyconservative.com/wisconsin/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3063</guid>
		<description>Libby, I agree.  Was there any request for parent feedback?  It would seem that the school district may want to update their letter to parents to include a list of topics that will be in the video.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Libby, I agree.  Was there any request for parent feedback?  It would seem that the school district may want to update their letter to parents to include a list of topics that will be in the video.</p>
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		<title>By: Libby</title>
		<link>http://fairlyconservative.com/2008/04/09/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3059</link>
		<dc:creator>Libby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fairlyconservative.com/wisconsin/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3059</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with El Gato, Shawn.  It is NOT public schools&#039; &quot;responsibility&quot; to educate children about the risks and dangers in the world.  In a nutshell, there are simply too many.  

What about the dangers of riding in a boat with out a life jacket?  Should we include a boating safety course in the school day?  It is very dangerous to dig where there could be underground power lines.  Should we ask teachers to take time out of reading/math/science curriculum to have kids memorize the number to digger&#039;s hotline?  Walking on thin ice is another risky activity.  Should all students have an introduction to ice safety?  I know these examples sound ridiculous, but the point is that a school can not possibly be all things to all people.  

The REAL danger comes in the false belief that by switching responsibility to the schools, the education received will be all-encompassing, accurate and complete.
Let me give you a recent example.  My son is a 4th grader.  Just prior to Spring Break, his grade-level participated in the first HG&amp;D &quot;talk&quot; - during the regular school day with boys separated from girls.  The note home said parents could attend, so my husband did.  He was the only parent attending the boys portion of the lecture.  The majority of what was covered addressed signs of puberty and personal hygiene.  A movie was shown with that intent, but there was a very brief portion that mentioned &quot;wet dreams&quot; and introduced the function of the sperm meeting the egg.  After the movie, a brief discussion ensued, with NO MENTION of the wet dream or sperm-meeting-egg portion of the film.  After the discussion, students were encouraged to submit questions in written form after being warned that only &quot;certain&quot; questions would be answered.  None of the questions chosen addressed the wet dream or sperm-meeting-egg concepts that had been introduced in the film.  So, at the end of it all...these 4th grade boys were introduced to the idea of wet dreams and sperm meeting egg without any follow-up.  Since there were no other parents attending the lecture, it is likely that most have no idea these concepts were even introduced - possibly leaving their children more confused/uncertain now than before.

Giving control to a separate entity means losing control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with El Gato, Shawn.  It is NOT public schools&#8217; &#8220;responsibility&#8221; to educate children about the risks and dangers in the world.  In a nutshell, there are simply too many.  </p>
<p>What about the dangers of riding in a boat with out a life jacket?  Should we include a boating safety course in the school day?  It is very dangerous to dig where there could be underground power lines.  Should we ask teachers to take time out of reading/math/science curriculum to have kids memorize the number to digger&#8217;s hotline?  Walking on thin ice is another risky activity.  Should all students have an introduction to ice safety?  I know these examples sound ridiculous, but the point is that a school can not possibly be all things to all people.  </p>
<p>The REAL danger comes in the false belief that by switching responsibility to the schools, the education received will be all-encompassing, accurate and complete.<br />
Let me give you a recent example.  My son is a 4th grader.  Just prior to Spring Break, his grade-level participated in the first HG&amp;D &#8220;talk&#8221; &#8211; during the regular school day with boys separated from girls.  The note home said parents could attend, so my husband did.  He was the only parent attending the boys portion of the lecture.  The majority of what was covered addressed signs of puberty and personal hygiene.  A movie was shown with that intent, but there was a very brief portion that mentioned &#8220;wet dreams&#8221; and introduced the function of the sperm meeting the egg.  After the movie, a brief discussion ensued, with NO MENTION of the wet dream or sperm-meeting-egg portion of the film.  After the discussion, students were encouraged to submit questions in written form after being warned that only &#8220;certain&#8221; questions would be answered.  None of the questions chosen addressed the wet dream or sperm-meeting-egg concepts that had been introduced in the film.  So, at the end of it all&#8230;these 4th grade boys were introduced to the idea of wet dreams and sperm meeting egg without any follow-up.  Since there were no other parents attending the lecture, it is likely that most have no idea these concepts were even introduced &#8211; possibly leaving their children more confused/uncertain now than before.</p>
<p>Giving control to a separate entity means losing control.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn</title>
		<link>http://fairlyconservative.com/2008/04/09/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3056</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fairlyconservative.com/wisconsin/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3056</guid>
		<description>&quot;Parents ignore talking about sex with their children because WE ALLOW THEM TO - by shifting responsibility to the schools. &quot;

Libby, you caught my attention with this comment.  I will be mulling this over for a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Parents ignore talking about sex with their children because WE ALLOW THEM TO &#8211; by shifting responsibility to the schools. &#8221;</p>
<p>Libby, you caught my attention with this comment.  I will be mulling this over for a while.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn</title>
		<link>http://fairlyconservative.com/2008/04/09/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3051</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fairlyconservative.com/wisconsin/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3051</guid>
		<description>Oh, no doubt. After some very disturbing conversations, it&#039;s nice to remember the pluses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, no doubt. After some very disturbing conversations, it&#8217;s nice to remember the pluses.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheri M.</title>
		<link>http://fairlyconservative.com/2008/04/09/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3050</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheri M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fairlyconservative.com/wisconsin/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3050</guid>
		<description>Cindy, 
Please accept my apology. I was rushed and in a hurry to get out the door to a concert my child was in.  I &quot;imagined&quot; people may think the committee had something definitive from students and was disregarding their input.  

I think you provide very good investigative work. I think your work is, on balance, a strong positive for the community.  You are a great watchdog!  But like any of us, can be appear overzealous at times.  When you&#039;re barking up the wrong tree, I will communicate that offline. 

Libby, Kathryn, Cindy, Shawn, Casey
I agree 100% about &quot;teaching moments&quot; for our children.   I also agree that some parents, for whatever reason may miss the teachable moment.  It does not come with age or grade level.  There are so many factors at play.  

Please get a copy of the parent/teacher edition of &quot;Unmasking Sexual Con Games&quot; by Kathleen M. McGee and Laura J.Buddenberg, Boys Town Press.  One place it is available is www.justsayyes.org Let me know what you think after reading it.

Opt Out is not always as smooth as people might like it to be, and children do get noticed. I&#039;ve been wondering wether middle school HGD could be offered on a quarterly basis, as ACE electives are.  That might make opt out easier while providing &quot;alternate curriculum&quot; at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cindy,<br />
Please accept my apology. I was rushed and in a hurry to get out the door to a concert my child was in.  I &#8220;imagined&#8221; people may think the committee had something definitive from students and was disregarding their input.  </p>
<p>I think you provide very good investigative work. I think your work is, on balance, a strong positive for the community.  You are a great watchdog!  But like any of us, can be appear overzealous at times.  When you&#8217;re barking up the wrong tree, I will communicate that offline. </p>
<p>Libby, Kathryn, Cindy, Shawn, Casey<br />
I agree 100% about &#8220;teaching moments&#8221; for our children.   I also agree that some parents, for whatever reason may miss the teachable moment.  It does not come with age or grade level.  There are so many factors at play.  </p>
<p>Please get a copy of the parent/teacher edition of &#8220;Unmasking Sexual Con Games&#8221; by Kathleen M. McGee and Laura J.Buddenberg, Boys Town Press.  One place it is available is <a href="http://www.justsayyes.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.justsayyes.org</a> Let me know what you think after reading it.</p>
<p>Opt Out is not always as smooth as people might like it to be, and children do get noticed. I&#8217;ve been wondering wether middle school HGD could be offered on a quarterly basis, as ACE electives are.  That might make opt out easier while providing &#8220;alternate curriculum&#8221; at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy Kilkenny</title>
		<link>http://fairlyconservative.com/2008/04/09/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3046</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy Kilkenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fairlyconservative.com/wisconsin/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3046</guid>
		<description>Yes, Kathryn, some are and some aren&#039;t. It&#039;s a responsibility of the system to eliminate those who are not from contact with out children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Kathryn, some are and some aren&#8217;t. It&#8217;s a responsibility of the system to eliminate those who are not from contact with out children.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn</title>
		<link>http://fairlyconservative.com/2008/04/09/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3045</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fairlyconservative.com/wisconsin/good-grief-what-is-it-with-wisconsin-teachers/#comment-3045</guid>
		<description>I was reminded this morning of the Principal who was killed while trying to disarm a student with a pistol.  What&#039;s with some of our Wisconsin teachers is noble and self-sacrificing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was reminded this morning of the Principal who was killed while trying to disarm a student with a pistol.  What&#8217;s with some of our Wisconsin teachers is noble and self-sacrificing.</p>
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