A chat with Cory Miller – aka, Cory the Well Driller

October 28, 2008 at 11:15 am --by Cindy · 168 Comments

The letter’s been rounding the ‘net. So I e-mailed, and here’s Cory’s reply:

Cindy,

The attached letter is the letter I wrote… don’t know if people have been altering what you’ve seen. Thanks for inquiring. If anyone asks you, tell them I can’t even begin to read all my emails… much less answer them all. I’ve received over 1000 emails since last Monday when I sent the letter out to 30 people. Over 17,000 hits on my website since then… crazy

God bless,
Cory Miller

—

The original letter:

Mr. Obama,

Given the uproar about the simple question asked you by Joe the plumber, and the persecution that has been heaped on him because he dared to question you, I find myself motivated to say a few things to you myself. While Joe aspires to start a business someday, I already have started not one, but 4 businesses. But first, let me introduce myself. You can call me “Cory the well driller”. I am a 54 year old high school graduate. I didn’t go to college like you, I was too ready to go “conquer the world” when I finished high school. 25 years ago at age 29, I started my own water well drilling business at a time when the economy here in East Texas was in a tailspin from the crash of the early 80′s oil boom. I didn’t get any help from the government, nor did I look for any. I borrowed what I could from my sister, my uncle, and even the pawn shop and managed to scrape together a homemade drill rig and a few tools to do my first job. My businesses did not start as a result of privilege. They are the result of my personal drive, personal ambition, self discipline, self reliance, and a determination to treat my customers fairly. From the very start my business provided one other (than myself) East Texan a full time job. I couldn’t afford a backhoe the first few years (something every well drilling business had), so I and my helper had to dig the mud pits that are necessary for each and every job with hand shovels. I had to use my 10 year old, 1/2 ton pickup truck for my water tank truck (normally a job for at least a 2 ton truck).

A year and a half after I started the business, I scraped together a 20% down payment to get a modest bank loan and bought a (28 year) old, worn out, slightly bigger drilling rig to allow me to drill the deeper water wells in my area. I spent the next few years drilling wells with the rig while simultaneously rebuilding it between jobs. Through these years I never knew from one month to the next if I would have any work or be able to pay the bills. I got behind on my income taxes one year, and spent the next two years paying that back (with penalty and interest) while keeping up with ongoing taxes. I got behind on my water well supply bill 2 different years (way behind the second time… $80,000.00), and spent over a year paying it back (each time) while continuing to pay for ongoing supplies C.O.D.. Of course, the personal stress endured through these experiences and years is hard to measure. I do have a stent in my heart now to memorialize it all.

I spent the next 10 years developing the reputation for being the most competent and most honest water well driller in East Texas. 2 years along the way, I hired another full time employee for the drilling business so that we could provide full time water well pump service as well as the well drilling. Also, 3 years along the path, I bought a water well screen service machine from a friend, starting business # 2. 5 years later I made a business loan for $100,000.00 to build a new, higher production, computer controlled screen service machine. I had designed the machine myself, and it didn’t work out for 3 years so I had to make the loan payments without the benefit of any added income from the new machine. No government program was there to help me with the payments, or to help me sleep at night as I lay awake wondering how I would solve my machine problems or pay my bills. Finally, after 3 years, I got the screen machine working properly, and that provided another full time job for an East Texan in the screen service business.

2 years after that, I made another business loan, this time for $250,000.00, to buy another used drilling rig and all the support equipment needed to run another, larger, drill rig. This provided another 2 full time jobs for East Texans. Again, I spent a couple of years not knowing if I had made a smart move, or a move that would bankrupt me. For the third time in 13 years, I had placed everything I owned on the line, risking everything, in order to build a business.

A couple of years into this, I came up with a bright idea for a new kind of mud pump, a fundamentally necessary pump used on water well drill rigs. I spent my entire life savings to date (just $30,000.00), building a prototype of the pump and took it to the national water well convention to show it off. Customers immediately started coming out of the woodworks to buy the pumps, but there was a problem. I had depleted my assets making the prototype, and nobody would make me a business loan to start production of the new pumps. With several deposits for pump orders in hand, and nowhere to go, I finally started applying for as many credit card as I could find and took cash withdrawals on these cards to the tune of over $150,000.00 (including modest loans from my dear sister and brother), to get this 3rd business going.

Yes, once again, I had everything hanging over the line in an effort to start another business. I had never manufactured anything, and I had to design and bring into production a complex hydraulic machine from an untested prototype to a reliable production model (in six months). How many nights I lay awake wondering if I had just made the paramount mistake of my life I cannot tell you, but there were plenty. I managed to get the pumps into production, which immediately created another 2 full time jobs in East Texas. Some of the models in the first year suffered from quality issues due to the poor workmanship of one of my key suppliers, so I and an employee (another East Texan employed) had to drive across the country to repair customers’ pumps, practically from coast to coast. I stood behind the product, and made payments to all the credit cards that had financed me (and my brother and sister). I spent the next 5 years improving and refining the product, building a reputation for the pump and the company, working to get the pump into drill rig manufacturers’ product lines, and paying back credit cards. During all this time I continued to manage a growing water well business that was now operating 3 drill rig crews, and 2 well service crews. Also, the screen service business continued to grow. No government programs were there to help me, Mr. Obama, but that’s ok, I didn’t expect any, nor did I want any. I was too busy fighting to make success happen to sit around waiting for the government to help me.

Now, after manufacturing the mud pumps for 7 years, my combined businesses employ 32 full time employees, and distribute $5,000,000.00 annually through the local economy. Now, just 4 months ago I borrowed $1,254,000.00, purchasing computer controlled machining equipment to start my 4th business, a production machine shop. The machine shop will serve the mud pump company so that we can better manufacture our pumps that are being shipped worldwide. Of course, the machine shop will also do work for outside companies as well. This has already produced 2 more full time jobs, and 2 more should develop out of it in the next few months. This should work out, but if it doesn’t it will be because you, and the other professional politicians like yourself, will have destroyed our countrys’ (and the world) economy with your meddling with mortgage loan programs through your liberal manipulation and intimidation of loaning institutions to make sure that unqualified borrowers could get mortgages. You see, at the very time when I couldn’t get a business loan to get my mud pumps into production, you were working with Acorn and the Community Reinvestment Act programs to make sure that unqualified borrowers could buy homes with no down payment, and even no credit or worse yet, bad credit. Even the infamous, liberal, Ninja loans (No Income, No Job or Assets). While these unqualified borrowers were enjoying unrealistically low interest rates, I was paying 22% to 24% interest on the credit cards that I had used to provide me the funds for the mud pump business that has created jobs for more East Texans. It’s funny, because after 25 years of turning almost every dime of extra money back into my businesses to grow them, it has been only in the last two years that I have finally made enough money to be able to put a little away for retirement, and now the value of that has dropped 40% because of the policies you and your ilk have perpetrated on our country.

You see, Mr. Obama, I’m the guy you intend to raise taxes on. I’m the guy who has spent 25 years toiling and sweating, fretting and fighting, stressing and risking, to build a business and get ahead. I’m the guy who has been on the very edge of bankruptcy more than a dozen times over the last 25 years, and all the while creating more and more jobs for East Texans who didn’t want to take a risk, and would not demand from themselves what I have demanded from myself. I’m the guy you characterize as “the Americans who can afford it the most” that you believe should be taxed more to provide income redistribution “to spread the wealth” to those who have never toiled, sweated, fretted, fought, stressed, or risked anything. You want to characterize me as someone who has enjoyed a life of privilege and who needs to pay a higher percentage of my income than those who have bought into your entitlement culture. I resent you, Mr. Obama, as I resent all who want to use class warfare as a tool to advance their political career. What’s worse, each year more Americans buy into your liberal entitlement culture, and turn to the government for their hope of a better life instead of themselves. Liberals are succeeding through more than 40 years of collaborative effort between the predominant liberal media, and liberal indoctrination programs in the public school systems across our land.

What is so terribly sad about this is this. America was made great by people who embraced the one-time American culture of self reliance, self motivation, self determination, self discipline, personal betterment, hard work, risk taking. A culture built around the concept that success was in reach on every able bodied American who would strive for it. Each year that less Americans embrace that culture, we all descend together. We descend down the socialist path that has brought country after country ultimately to bitter and unremarkable states. If you and your liberal comrades in the media and school systems would spend half as much effort cultivating a culture of can-do across America as you do cultivating your entitlement culture, we could see Americans at large embracing the conviction that they can elevate themselves through personal betterment, personal achievement, and self reliance. You see, when people embrace such ideals, they act on them. When people act on such ideals, they succeed. All of America could find herself elevating instead of deteriorating. But that would eliminate the need for liberal politicians, wouldn’t it, Mr. Obama? The country would not need you if the country was convinced that problem solving was best left with individuals instead of the government. You and all your liberal comrades have got a vested interested in creating a dependent class in our country. It is the very business of liberals to create an ever expanding dependence on government. What’s remarkable is that you, who have never produced a job in your life, are going to tax me to take more of my money and give it to people who wouldn’t need my money if they would get off their entitlement mentality asses and apply themselves at work, demand more from themselves, and quit looking to liberal politicians to raise their station in life.

You see, I know because I’ve had them work for me before. Hundreds of them over these 25 years. People who simply will not show up to work on time. People who just will not work 5 days in a week, much less, 6 days. People always looking for a way to put less effort out. People who actually tell me that they would do more if I just would first pay them more. People who take off work to sit in government offices to apply to get free government handouts (gee, I wonder how things would have turned out for them if they had spent that time earning money and pleasing their employer?). You see, all of this comes from your entitlement mentality culture.

Oh, I know you will say I am uncompassionate. Sorry, Mr. Obama, wrong again. You see, I’ve seen what the average percentage of your income has been given to charities over the years of 2000 to 2004 (ignoring the years you started running for office – can you pronounce “politically motivated”), you averaged of less than 1% annually. And your running mate, Joe Biden, averaged less than ¼% of his annual income in charitable contributions over the last 10 years. Like so many liberals, the two of you want to give to the needy, just as long as it is someone else’s money you are giving to them. I won’t say what I have given to charities over the last 25 years, but the percentage is several times more than you or Joe Biden… combined (don’t you just hate google?). Tell me again how you feel my pain.

In short, Mr. Obama, your political philosophies represent everything that is wrong with our country. You represent the culture of government dependence instead of self reliance; Entitlement mentality instead of personal achievement; Penalization of the successful to reward the unmotivated; Political correctness instead of open mindedness and open debate. If you are successful, you may preside over the final transformation of America from being the greatest and most self-reliant culture on earth, to just another country of whiners and wimps, who sit around looking to the government to solve their problems. Like all of western Europe. All countries on the decline. All countries that, because of liberal socialistic mentalities, have a little less to offer mankind every year.

God help us…

Cory Miller
just a ordinary, extraordinary American, the way most Americans used to be.

P.S. Yes, Mr. Obama, I am a real American… meet me at: www.cmillerdrilling.com ; and: www.centerlinemanufacturing.com

Tags: Obama

168 responses so far ↓

1 Dan H // Oct 28, 2008 at 12:41 pm

I wish all of America would spend 10 minutes to read that letter and think for a moment.
2 Chuck Lewis // Oct 28, 2008 at 2:09 pm

Cindy, Mr. Miller,

Please forgive my presumption, but I am so affected by your e-mail a friend sent me this morning, I have Echoed it out to Concervative friends in my e-mail circle, and I included Shean Hannity, because Mr. Corey, I pray you might condsider setting aside some time to share this crucially needed message with the rest of america.

—-
This is how I prefaced my e-mail:

Sean & Crew: I know you are busy, and have multiple other events in the pipeline, but I pray that you have already seen this, or if not you try to contact this gentleman. I firmly believe we need him and the thousands more like him to be included in the dialog, before next Tuesday!

Best regards,

Chuck Lewis

=========================

Thanks Les,

If ever there was someone, who we could ask to rest briefly from his chosen work, ( and the patience of his backlogged customers) to join Mr. McCain and articulate to folks what he so eloquently, and dead-on-the-point speaks to in this e-mail, This gentleman is it.

God Bless you, Sir, & your Employees, and Fellow West Texan’s, for your continued success.

Regards,

Chuck
3 Richard Mattson // Oct 28, 2008 at 6:08 pm

What a bunch of propaganda crap this is. Clearly Cory is misguided, if there really is a Cory. All the conservative left has left to do is try to scare America into voting for the continued same ol’ same ol.
4 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 28, 2008 at 6:27 pm

Oh, there’s really a Cory.

Too bad you have so little respect for the people that make America great.
5 S. Cory Fallon // Oct 28, 2008 at 7:09 pm

This is to Mr. Mattson and to you Ms. Kilkenny, I am a United States Marine, I fought for my country, did You? no that is what I thought, I’ve seen pieces of people put into body bags, my friends. I have earned the right to criticize anyone I choose.
6 S. Cory Fallon // Oct 28, 2008 at 7:40 pm

Mr. Mattson, I have a question for you, what is a bunch of crap? these are the facts. Can we have a civilized discussion? thank you.
7 G. Miller // Oct 28, 2008 at 8:09 pm

To Richard Mattson,
Just wanted to let you know that Cory is real. He is my (biological) brother and I have watched as he has struggled through the years to develop successful businesses based on quality principals. His points are valid. Why don’t you discuss them rather than making personal attacks without any basis. I don’t see any scare tactics in his letter. Only facts that demonstrate why so many hard working Americans are frustrated with the liberal philosophy.
8 J. Strupp // Oct 28, 2008 at 8:13 pm

“While these unqualified borrowers were enjoying unrealistically low interest rates, I was paying 22% to 24% interest on the credit cards that I had used to provide me the funds for the mud pump business that has created jobs for more East Texans. It’s funny, because after 25 years of turning almost every dime of extra money back into my businesses to grow them, it has been only in the last two years that I have finally made enough money to be able to put a little away for retirement, …”

What?

Why the hell would you put hundreds of thousands of dollars on a credit card at 22%-24% interest to fund a new operation? A monkey could walk into a bank TOMMORROW and borrow below 24%, that is, unless the monkey’s balance sheet and credit history is a total trainwreck. Then he would need to finance his new operation with 24% credit cards.

Sorry guy. My B.S. detector is off the charts right now. Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course but something’s not right here……
9 G. Miller // Oct 28, 2008 at 8:40 pm

Mr. Strupp,
Are you kidding me about “Are you kidding.” Apparently you are the one who doesn’t know much about small businesses if you think they can walk into a bank and get a low interest loan any time they want. It is very difficult for small businesses to obtain investment capital.

Maybe Cory shouldn’t have used high interest credit cards to obtain capital, but then there would be about 30 families that would not have their current source of employment.

I guess it is know it all people like you that have all the answers when they haven’t put their own butt on the line to start a business. I know you haven’t because your comments prove it.

By the way, please tell me where these banks are that any monkey can walk into TOMORROW to get a low interest loan. I think there will be a line there when they open in the morning.
10 Randy in Richmond // Oct 28, 2008 at 8:53 pm

Strupp
So you think he has bad credit. So what. That doesn’t change the story. You think somebody with bad credit would have a credit card with a limit in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. It’s tougher to get credit on a card than a straight loan.
And yet again-attack the messenger and ignor the message, change the subject.
11 BrkfldDad // Oct 28, 2008 at 8:56 pm

J Strupp – if you walked into a bank right now and asked for an unsecured loan, you’d be paying 15.75% or higher. Down a 1/2 dozen points or more from the past couple of years. That’s if you can pay it back in 5 years. Longer terms, and higher balances drive that rate up. On credit cards, cash advances are charged at a much higher rate than credit balances, and are easier to obtain (assuming you have or can obtain the card(s)). Mr. Miller’s rates are plausible and not unexpected. You’d better get that monkey off your back before it takes a loan out in your name that you can’t afford.
12 J. Strupp // Oct 28, 2008 at 9:25 pm

Don’t worry Brookfield….you can bet I won’t be letting him swipe my 24% credit card for a few hundred thousand bucks.
13 JGC // Oct 29, 2008 at 9:08 am

I was born in USA but lived outside until end of HS. (Although a citizen, I have not a single relative in the USA) I came back at 18 with $500 (borrowed and repaid), a HS Diploma and an “old fashioned American work ethic”. I knew no one when I returned at 18. I put myself through college using an American Express Optima Card – I could not get a loan – no history. (I am sure I was “optimistic” on my credit card application) I worked 3 jobs while at school part time and paid back every cent of my credit card advance. 25 years later I have done well. I got NOTHING from anyone. I am proud of what I did and not ashamed of my hard work. I am generous and compassionate but not foolish. My children do not get allowances – they get paid if they work. I am thankful to my country for “re”accepting me upon my return and giving me the opportunity to succeed. I am real. This is not a story or propaganda – I am America!
14 Texas // Oct 29, 2008 at 11:24 am

Mr. Strupp,
I guess you never had to live in the 80′s where people thought 20% was a deal! You obviously know NOTHING about loans. You CANNOT just walk into a bank and demand money for a start up company, DOESN’T HAPPEN! Banks want to loan to businesses that are NOT risks, you try and get a loan from a bank for a start up company, heck try to get a loan on a credit card in the name of a business that you are just starting…these are VERY RISKY loans and even in todays world, you would pay an enormous amount of credit IF YOU COULD GET A LOAN for this business. I have worked for a couple of different banks and also loan money on mortgages, money is tight with EVERY institution, do you really think they are going to throw their money away on a whim, you are sadly mistaken. I have worked in sales for the last 3 years, so I am vertually self employed and it is a tough business to start. Every business is built on trust, if you can’t sell yourself to people based on trust, you do not have a business. Mr. Miller has a very trustworthy business and everyone I have ever come across has given praise in regards to his business. Mr. Miller is a wonderful man who is trustworthy and does nothing in this letter but state facts! You are obviously disillusioned and missed the WHOLE point of the story!
15 G. Miller // Oct 29, 2008 at 11:27 am

To JGC,
Bravo to you. You are an example to all who would wish to be successful in this country. It is hard work and motivation that brings success, not handouts. Thank you for coming back to America.
16 Sam // Oct 29, 2008 at 12:36 pm

This guy makes me proud to be an American. It certainly brings a little more hope to this election that there are still those who recognize the value of hard work and the dangers of government handouts (i.e. if it’s too good to be true…). I hope the nation’s media will get a hold of this one and run with it…it would be yet another stick of dynamite to add to McCain’s ammunition against Obama…if people haven’t already opened their eyes to Obama’s crap logic then they will (if they are willing) after reading this account of what it really means to strive for the American dream. Good stuff.
17 Bill // Oct 29, 2008 at 1:28 pm

You think that Realtors and Loan Officers aren’t small businessmen?

You really believe that no one PROFITED from those high risk and NINJA loans?

I’m a realtor, and I’ll tell you this, I made tons of cash selling people on loans I knew damned well they couldn’t afford. I busted my ass to make sure that I got as many people in homes as I could. You wonder why there’s a huge bailout in the mortgage industry? Because people like me, small businessmen wanted to make more money. Greed. Blood, sweat, tears and competition. To quote Cory “A culture built around the concept that success was in reach on every able bodied American who would strive for it.” I strove for it, and I still do. I wanted more. I did nothing illegal. I followed every procedure. I WANTED MORE. I BUSTED MY ASS TO GET IT. There’s money to be made out there, there was money to loan back then. There were people who wanted Houses, and everywhere you looked there was another advertisement talking about how there had never been a better time to buy.

How, exactly, is that a liberal slant? You think the people who owned those loan companies were made solely of Liberals? I doubt it. Most of those wealthy, (I’m talking about multimillionares here) aren’t card carrying bush licking republicans?

Exactly.

So, before you go blaming Obama, maybe you should think twice about who wrote those loans. They’re the same asses that love Bush, hate gays, want to criminalize abortion, but love having our boys killed in a senseless war.

Yeah, I’m a liberal. Why? Because I want choice, and this administration has done nothing but indoctrinate people into fear. It’s done nothing but sytematically reduce the number of choices I can make as a free citizen.

I’m doing damn well in this market too, selling million dollar homes that are drastically devalued. If you’re looking for a good deal on a million dollar home, I’ll go in with killer instincts to get the price down for you. The same killer instincts that helped me put people with crap for credit into homes that they couldn’t afford. And I don’t care what color you are, or what your religion is or who you go to bed with. All I care about is getting paid.

Sound like a liberal to you? I think I sound more like a republican.

So yeah, pass this around the net, you one sided, blind sheep.
18 Randy in Richmond // Oct 29, 2008 at 1:49 pm

Bill
No, you sound exactly like a liberal. In a post about a small business you worked in gays, choice, Bush bashing, skin color, religion, sleeping around, abortion, killing our soldiers, fear, and the customary personal attack.
Tell me Bill, what choice could you make 8 years ago that you cannot make now?
19 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 29, 2008 at 1:53 pm

Bill sounds exactly like an Obama campaign worker, actually. We get those from time to time, you know.

I smell fear this week, and it’s coming from guys like Bill.
20 Bill // Oct 29, 2008 at 2:15 pm

How about Habeus Corpus? Oh, and just so you know. I really liked Ron Paul. That man really might have saved this country, and people like Cory from our apparent demise.

Then there’s my choice to protest when bush comes to town to speak. Heh, keeping people who aren’t for him a couple of blocks away in a “designated protest zone”.

But I’m curious why you guys didn’t choose Ron Paul? He’s pretty conservative, and he was on the republican ticket. And no, I don’t work for Obama.

And I’ll tell you something else, Randy, I’m from Texas. Born and Raised. It’s not uncommon to hear men here talking about the travesty of the possibility of having a “N———” as the president of our country. That doesn’t help your cause either. For God’s Sake, it’s 2008. I’m not saying that anyone here has said it. But I’ve heard it directly. Just Sunday Night I was sitting four tables away from a group of guys loud enough to be heard clearly referring to him as “Oh Massa” again and again and using that racial epithet “the N-Word” freely. Of course, it was a steakhouse, an expensive one too. And everyone knows that liberals are all vegetarians. They must have felt safe about throwing around the n word like that. After all, we’re all conservative here.

At least they were saying it out loud. What worries me are the people who simply think it, but don’t voice that this is their primary concern.

I’m tired of that sort of thing. Really tired of it. Does the man’s color really matter? Or is that the only thing they can hate him for? Intelligent discourse? On the golf course? Nah, it’s easier to call him a stupid nigger. I dare you to say you haven’t heard one conservative you know say it.

But really, I think the one candidate we could all have agreed on was Ron Paul. Why don’t you guys like him?
21 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 29, 2008 at 2:18 pm

Nope, Bill. You’re still a little too angry to be taken seriously as a Ron Paul guy. You also through in a lot of unnecessary racial stuff – not too believable, either.

Nice attempt to divert the vote, though.
22 Tom // Oct 29, 2008 at 2:56 pm

It is passionate. And I guess if you aren’t very well informed on the issues, it might even be persuasive.

ACORN is responsible for the financial crisis!?!?

During the loose lending period Cory couldn’t get a low interest bank loan and had to use credit cards? Cory could have used a financial advisor.

Obama and Biden are willing to raise taxes on themselves and Cory criticizes them for not feeling his pain? What kind of convoluted logic is he using?

It also sounds like Cory has never made much money. Certainly doesn’t sound like he’s been making over $250K annually. He would have been better off oh these many years under Obama’s tax plan.
23 Randy in Richmond // Oct 29, 2008 at 3:04 pm

Bill
As a citizen of this country your right to habeas corpus has not changed in the past 8 years. The Military Commisions Act of 2006 denied the right of habeas corpus ” only to aliens detained by the United States”. Civilian courts were not affected by this act in any way.
24 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 29, 2008 at 3:09 pm

Aw, gosh, Tom. You don’t think Cory is being honest?

There was loose lending on housing, by the way, not on small businesses. Obama and Biden are willing to raise taxes on themselves. In what they consider a fair trade off, they will lead the free world.

I’m so grateful such a well-informed gentleman as yourself stopped by and shared his opinion.
25 Randy in Richmond // Oct 29, 2008 at 3:54 pm

Tom
I missed the part where Cory said ACORN is responsible for the financial crisis. And what kind of convoluted logic are you using to compare giving to charity with paying higher taxes. Charity giving is a choice, a choice both Obama and Biden for the most part ignored. Not made much money. Thirty two full time employees and you say he hasn’t made much money. Recently secured a loan for $1,254,000 and he hasn’t made much money. And no, just Obama’s promise not to renew the Bush tax cuts would have raised Cory’s taxes considerally, without even getting into the Capital Gains increases Obama’s promising. And remember, Obama wants to impose a windfall profit tax on oil companies as well as eliminate tax incentives now in effect–and guess who will pay for this, the Corys and Joes of the country every time they buy gas or a petroleum product.
26 G. Miller // Oct 29, 2008 at 4:39 pm

Wow Bill,
You are all over the place. I was going to respond to you, but you are so far out there, I think it would be a wasted cause. Based on your comments, you would rate about 12.5 on the 1-10 liberal scale. By the way, I am a strong conservative and I have not heard anyone in my company refer to Senator Obama using the N__ word. This election is not about race (all though there will always be some out there on all sides that are racist), it is about choosing the best leader for our country.

Maybe there is a good therapist in your area.
27 J. Strupp // Oct 29, 2008 at 5:25 pm

Glad to see the whole state of Texas stopped by to give me business advice and tell their life story.

What’s the point of the story, Texas? That you and your buddy bought into the narrative that the “socialists are taking over this country”? This is the same tired load of crappola from 2004 except McCain’s handlers substituted “socialists” for “terrorists”. All this “I’m a real American” stuff really whips the gung-ho, Republican base into a frenzy but good luck getting it to play with the moderate conservatives and independants.

P.S. this nation has been highly over-leveraged since the 1980′s and if you think the democrates are solely to blame for this disaster then you better stop and smell what you’re shoveling.
28 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 29, 2008 at 5:52 pm

Hey, I would never mess with Texas.
29 j. farmer // Oct 29, 2008 at 7:04 pm

Sounds like a true american story until Cory brings up the financial crises. Then it morphs into the typical republican talking point of blaming the CRA on the current financial crises. The only problem is there is not a shred of documented evidence that shows the CRA is soley responsible for the sub-prime mess. Has anybody heard of credit-default swaps and derivatives or the lack of regulation of the secondary mortgage market. Its only fair to blame poor minorities for the greed of “laissez-fair” capitalists.
30 Randy in Richmond // Oct 29, 2008 at 8:33 pm

j. farmer
Those credit swaps and secondary mortgage markets do not take place until the original loan is made to someone not financially qualified. It matters not who the holder of the loan is if the payer is unable to make payments. And I see you wisely used the word soley in defending the CRA. This act was also unfair to those it put in houses they could not pay for, whether they were minorities, first home buyers, or poor credit risks. No, the CRA is not soley responsible but just mostly responsible for this mess.
31 j. farmer // Oct 29, 2008 at 8:39 pm

I understand the secondary mortgage market as is relates to “not holding the responsibility of the loan” my question is what deregulated this market and who created the credit-default swaps? Correct me if I’m wrong, but mortgage companies do not fall under the regulations of the CRA.
32 Daryl L. Hunter // Oct 29, 2008 at 8:58 pm

Cory, thanks for the story, someone e-mailed it to me and I forwarded it to everyone in my address book and posted it on my blog. http://daryl-l-hunter.blogspot.com/

It looks like J. farmer doesn’t like it anymore since you are of a different stripe.

j. Strupp seems to be ok with the socialists taking over the country.

That Bill – he is quite a guy, he would never make it in the well drilling business.

Richard Mattson – I guess you missed the point where any extra expense like a higher tax could have ended his ability to employ 32 people.

Powerful story
33 j. farmer // Oct 29, 2008 at 9:17 pm

I never said i didn’t like the story. I do have a hard time understanding what this financial crisis has to do with a progressive income tax. I am willing to listen to any argument, but not one single person has presented any factual evidence of the culpability of the CRA in this mortgage mess. Please guide me to the light.
34 Greg // Oct 29, 2008 at 11:00 pm

There are some interesting comments here. I wonder if anyone looked at fact based sites like http://www.factcheck.org to see how each candidates economic plan will affect Cory the Driller. I think there are tax breaks for health care that may lower Cory the Drillers costs
35 Greg // Oct 30, 2008 at 8:01 am

I”ve been observing this entire election how Obama is a Muslim, he hangs around with terrorists, he won’t say the pledge of allegiance, he’s going to raise your taxes, he’s a socialist, he’s a marxist, he won’t show his birth certificate, and all these have been proved false. What I haven’t heard from anyone yet is that McCain is a good man and a good choice for president. All I’ve heard from republicans is their typical negative attacks. No wonder they are doing so poorly in the polls.
36 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 8:49 am

Obama was reared a Muslim, he hung around with a known domestic terrorist, he’s going to raise taxes. His goal is to redistribute wealth, a prime tenet of socialism. He had the Governor of Hawaii seal access to the his original birth certificate. (That was the little trip to see Toot, but no one really reported the real cause of that trip.)

The only one on your list is “he won’t say the pledge of allegiance.” Ok, maybe that one’s false.
37 J. Strupp // Oct 30, 2008 at 8:54 am

Greg, John McCain IS a good man, both as a person and a leader. No one would ever question that. And his bipartisan efforts throughout his career have been very admirable.

But this isn’t the man I voted for in the primaries and he’s definately not the “maverick” he has proclaimed to be anymore. Honestly, does anyone really see the “real” John McCain anymore? Not a chance. The negative ads, outragous running mate choice and constant whining over biased media coverage has turned the “maverick” into a typical Republican old goat whose campaign is being controlled by is handlers. This guy has had so many “campaign themes” the last few months I don’t know if even he knows what his campaign is all about anymore.

Independents and moderates, at one time, might have been willing to listen to the “maverick” John McCain, but does he really have anything to say anymore?
38 J. Strupp // Oct 30, 2008 at 9:12 am

Yeah Cindy, I’m still waiting for that big story out of Hawaii to break. Looks like it’s a bit late coming out. Maybe the LA Times is holding it hostage. I think that the John McCain people should definately call for an investigation into Obama’s birth certifcate status don’t you? That would be a great political move on his part hey?

Afterall, the Obama people wouldn’t be baiting McCain into calling for an investigation or anything.
39 Randy in Richmond // Oct 30, 2008 at 9:35 am

Greg
Could you please provide a link where anyone in the McCain Campaign has said Obama is a Muslim. He has hung around with terriorists, such as: Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dorn, Marilyn Katz, Carl Davidson, and Rashid Khalidi.

Simply by not renewing the Bush tax cuts he would be raising your taxes. In his proposed health plan Obama has not provided where one cent of the funding will come from. Can you guess? He is a socialist because he promotes socialist beliefs and programs. And again please provide a link where anyone with the McCain campaign calls Obama a Marxist. He has not provided his original birth certificate or a copy of same. A computer generated extract doesn’t count.

And you left out one. He voted three times to deny proper medical attention to babies born alive and separate from their mothers in a failed abortion. He also lied about the vote until video of him explaining the vote proved he was lying. As far as I know he does recite the pledge.

McCains personal attributes can be found everywhere. Politically he says he will renew the Bush tax cuts, veto ear marks from Congress, and win the war in Iraq. As a Senator he took the lead in exposing Jack Abramoff, a mostly Republican lobbyist. He supported the Surge in Iraq when it was extremely unpopular to do so and he will see we leave Iraq, not on a schedule, but with success. He believes in the capitalist system, smaller government, lower taxes when possible, and others too numerous to mention. But those I did list are in direct contrast to what Obama has done or says he will do.

So you haven’t watched the Obama ads, where they made fun of Sen McCains inability to use a keyboard because of war related injuries, attacked his concentration-code word for age, and associate him with Pres. Bush in a negative way. And there’s this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/17/AR2008091703581.html
40 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 9:39 am

Josh – a saw a few things out there, but nothing from the MSM. If the media doesn’t cover it, does that mean it didn’t happen?
41 Randy in Richmond // Oct 30, 2008 at 9:54 am

Strupp
How about an example of Sen McCain ‘whining’ about a biased media. Not the reporters, announcers, or pundits,but Sen McCain.
You’ll get no argument from me that his campaign could have been run better.
42 J. Strupp // Oct 30, 2008 at 9:59 am

Come on Cindy. You don’t think the McCain people, the blogosphere, the conservative radio boys, etc. aren’t hovering over this story looking for evidence? The liberal media may not be, but there are plenty of conservatives looking for the straw that could break the camels back.

I’m sure they are desperately looking for the hailmary. I would be too at this point.
43 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 10:22 am

Josh – the blogosphere has it out there, the MSM does not.

Hail Mary passes are sometimes caught, you know.
44 J. Strupp // Oct 30, 2008 at 10:22 am

Randy, you and I know that you let your surrogates do the whining for you. And they have been whining every step of the way, from the Palin fallout, to the “Joe the Plumber” exposure, to now the LA Times “scandal”.

The media is liberal. We know this. It’s not going to change. Whether you like him or not, President Bush found a way around this bias twice. You either find a way reach the Amercan public another way or you whine about the MSM’s coverage. We know which road the McCain campaign has chosen to take.
45 Leapin // Oct 30, 2008 at 10:35 am

Jock Strupp -

You can minimize the effect of the MSM but it still reaches a much larger audience than blogs and talk radio. It will, under BO, become the fourth branch of government. Maybe BO will add an official propaganda misister to his cabinet. BO will really need only one outlet for “news” so the message is undiluted and consistent. Thsi means that alot of the MSM will be out of jobs but they sure have been useful tools during the campaign.
46 Randy in Richmond // Oct 30, 2008 at 11:12 am

Under your definition I would be a whiner. Under no definition is John McCain a whiner. I certainly would do some things differently in the campaign and on some issues Sen McCain and I differ. For me choosing a candidate is a choice, but not a choice of perfection. George Bush accomplished two feats for which I will forever be thankful. He 1) defeated Al Gore and 2) defeated John Kerry. I do not agree with the buyout President Bush supported nor do I agree with some of his decisions, but the good he has done for the country at a high personal price far outweighs my disagreements. Just this morning as I pumped $ 1.96/gallon gas into my car I silently thanked President Bush.
Disagreeing with or pointing out fallacies in your opponent’s views and beliefs is not whining. And yes, I agree the media is liberal but in this election they are also biased.
I will be voting for John McCain and Sarah Palin.
47 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 12:43 pm

Leapin – I didn’t read your comment because you started it very, very badly. Shame on you. His name is Josh, and if you can’t use that us J. or J.S., or identify the comment by number.
48 Kevin // Oct 30, 2008 at 12:56 pm

Open letter to people who share Mr. Miller’s passionate and misguided ideology,

This man proves his own ignorance. What Mr. Miller talks of is the creation of a welfare state, a socialist-governed economy and the de-motivation of America into an unexceptional nation. What he fails to do is understand, listen and think. He’s succumb to fear instilled by Limbaugh, Hannity, Palin, McCain, and Mr. Bush – and the greed they promote. Does he talk of the 1990s, the era when he probably achieved the majority of his success in the pre-Bush era when the majority prospered, not just the haves and have-mores? No. He believes that anyone who has not achieved his level of success, is not successful; that someone who has not worked as hard as him, is not a hard worker; or that someone who is bankrupt, didn’t take risk.

I hate to break this to Mr. Miller, but in every industry around the world and across the country there are overwhelmers, underwhelmers and then, just the whelmers – i.e. your average everyday citizen. How dare he group the throngs of the middle class into a group he has known only as his past employees. How much did you pay them anyway Mr. Miller? The “never toilers”, who are they? Have they really never “worked, stressed, fretted.” Come on? You could have easily been one of them as you’ve, self proclaimed, been on the brink of bankruptcy many times. And what of those who have been bankrupted, did they not take risk? Did they not try? Did they not work hard? Do you really have any idea?

Senator Obama is not preaching creation of a welfare state, it’s stimulation of millions of jobs through incentive packages for renewable fuel and clean energy – the next decade’s tech boom. He speaks of creation of jobs through public works that everyone benefits from, not just the poor but the rich who get to drive there 2nd car down a highway that isn’t crumbling that was refurbished by a working class man who was laid off when a corporate giant moved his factory to a 3rd world nation to A) exploit another country’s cheap labor and B) enjoy huge corporate tax breaks from the Bush administration.

Senator Obama doesn’t proclaim handouts, he advocates opportunity. It’s money that goes to the betterment of such things as public schools that will provide well-rounded, intelligent children who are able to compete domestically and abroad. It’s money that will go towards preventive healthcare education to create a nation of healthy citizens who are less of a drain on the already over-burdened and broken healthcare system.

He says that the people he hires are the people who don’t take risk, but they are the ones who have made him rich on their sweat, toil and risk they take everyday to realize his good idea and what I’ll blindly grant as good management. You are the problem Mr. Miller, and the solution you advocate is why we are in this predicament in the first place, a solution framed by greed and shortsightedness.

“America was made great by people who embraced the one-time American culture of self reliance, self motivation, self determination, self discipline, personal betterment, hard work, risk taking.” I couldn’t agree with you more. However, in your sepia toned image of what America was when it was “great,” do you see a nation only made of business owners, CEOs and stockbrokers? No, you see a nation of workers, builders, educators – the same people who make you rich ask for very little in return: decent pay, job security, healthcare and a pension that doesn’t disappear. If you can’t find the workers, I think you’ll have more luck considering there have been 500,000 layoffs last month.

Enjoy your tax cuts and calling those around you lazy. Do it as your country falls apart in front of your very eyes.

I especially like your profound observation that Western Europe is on the decline – more like they’re kicking our ass in education, healthcare, life expectancy, infrastructure, environmental initiatives, stronger currency, and positive global perception. I beg the question of you, have you actually ever been there? Do you know what you’re talking about?

You Mr. Miller are what represents everything that’s wrong with this country with your “me first” attitude. It might be deliberate or just your myopic view where you can’t see the forest through the trees. As much as you fancy yourself a capitalist, you’re a feudalist. You want to guard what you have by keeping the serfs in check, having them live in sub-human conditions, diseased and disillusioned.

I’d like to remind you:
Progressive Taxation: Theodore Roosevelt
Earned Income Tax Credit: Initiated by Gerald Ford and perpetuated by Ronald Reagan
Socialists? Communists? Be honest with yourself! Yeah, you might want to Google that one.

Answer me: By how many percent will your taxes go up? All this for 4% increase in taxes. Did you ever stop to think that it might be the right thing to do? That the tax breaks you got were wrong and now you are just paying them back, a fault you can thank Mr. Bush for. Do you realize there are millions of self-made, successful business people like yourself who see the nation in a state of disarray, but willing to give back?

My father is an immigrant who came with nothing more than a few dollars in his pocket. He’s since put three kids through private colleges and seen his retirement fund decimated twice in the past 15 years because of two extreme market meltdowns. He’s 69 years old. He continues to work. He continues to make over $250,000 a year. And, this year for the first time since he arrived here in 1966, he will vote Democrat for all of these reasons mentioned above boiled down into one: It’s the right thing to do.

I am 33, am starting a family and make over $250,000 a year. I am where I am because I had the opportunities afforded me by my father who in turn was afforded opportunity by this country. I to will be casting my vote for Senator Obama and am ready and willing to make the sacrifice.

The sooner you realize there’s more than two types of people in this country, the sooner you might stop being part of the problem, and begin being part of the solution.

A dedicated, open-minded, real American – like many Americans are

PS: I’m going to introduce you to a new term: opportunity cost. Mr. Obama passed up what would be an 8-digit, annual paycheck to serve his fellow man, I believe the opportunity cost for his choice outweighs whatever you or I will ever be able to give back.
49 Randy in Richmond // Oct 30, 2008 at 2:26 pm

Kevin
Who are you really trying to convince?
You say so much let me say I pretty much disagree with every thing you say. And I do think you should vote for Obama as you say you are.
Actually, in September there were 159,ooo non-farm jobs lost-not 500,000.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Obama has said he will not renew the Bush tax cuts. This is what that will mean:

Tax rates will rise substantially in each tax bracket, some by 450 basis points;
Low-income taxpayers will see the 10-percent tax bracket disappear, and they will have to pay taxes at the 15-percent rate;
Married taxpayers will see the marriage penalty return;
Taxpayers with children will lose 50 percent of their child tax credits;
Taxes on dividends will increase.
Taxes on capital gains will increase, ; and
Federal death taxes will come back to life in 2011, after fading down to nothing in 2010.

This will affect every American, regardless of income.
50 Leapin // Oct 30, 2008 at 2:47 pm

Kevin-

“Answer me: By how many percent will your taxes go up? All this for 4% increase in taxes.”

You must believe that this Chicago machine politician is as pure as the driven snow. ALL politicians lie, it’s just a matter of degree. Do you have that 4% in writing with a money back guarantee? Also it’s not about just one tax or fee that will be increased, it’s about the sum of all taxes and fees that will be increasing at federal, state and local levels Maybe “All this for a 25-30% increase in taxes”..

P.S. Clinton ran on surtax for millionaires theme. Before he was even inaugurated he admitted that tax increases would have to be extended to the middle class.
51 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 3:11 pm

Kevin – I would have no problem with Mr. Obama assuming his rightful salary and leaving the public alone. He will continue to generate revenue from his fake memoirs even if he’s elected.

What I think you are missing is the other side of Obama’s argument. He not only wants to tax more heavily, he wants to output that new income to those who aren’t even paying in!

I can be sold a little on the concept of progressive taxes to manage national security, maybe even roads, but to hand it over to someone else? That really changes the equation. That’s redistributing wealth, which is a tenet of socialism.

PS – you might want to check Obama’s latest rhetoric. The numbers look to have changed since the “get in their faces” talking points were e-mailed.
52 Devil's Advocate // Oct 30, 2008 at 3:56 pm

Looking at the tax plans proposed by both candidates (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=411750), I see that they both have very poor ideas about how to make money for the federal government. But this doesn’t really bother me, because it doesn’t really matter what their proposals are. These tax proposals are always a big topic, because they have the appearance of affecting everyone, so everyone starts pointing and wagging fingers. It’s a ploy of both parties involved to try to win votes. “I steal from the rich to give to the poor!” vs. “Tax cuts for everyone, especially the hard-working business owners!” Whatever.

Our friend Cory the well driller has told us a very gripping story of his business history. The sad part for him is regardless of who gets put in office, he’s just now putting away money for retirement. Maybe he should have opened 2 businesses instead of 4 and started to put something away a decade ago. Or maybe opened 3 businesses and hired a good accountant/financial advisor. Don’t get me wrong, but “Obama and his ilk” will not be the downfall of his retirement, nor will McCain be the savior of it. The tax proposal will be scrutinized by plenty of people and agreed upon by other people that have been elected by “we the people” from every part of the country.

That being said, I can’t really blame Cory for lashing out like that. He’s scared, and he probably should be. The real scary part is that it’s going to take more than one person to make a difference. Believe me, I wish we could all point the finger at one person and say truthfully that “You will cause the downfall of this great country!” However, I really wonder if Cory is saying those things because he sees the 3% tax increase of Obama’s plan, or the 10% tax break in McCain’s plan? Like I said, though, it doesn’t really matter.

Finally, the real problem I see is one small phrase. The phrase is “entitlement mentality.” Sure, there are people who are sucking the government for money…taking my hard-earned tax dollars. But there are also people who really need help and they have no place else to turn (for any multitude of reasons). The sad part is that “entitlement mentality” is a phrase usually spoken by people who have an “elitist mentality,” or who like to consider themselves better than other people for some reason. The truth of the matter is that this country was founded on entitlement (“No Taxation without Representation”), to get away from the elitist social/religious class. However, as a society, we really need to focus on the future, and not the past. “Entitlement mentality” now seems to mean slacker, but no matter the word, the sentiment is the same; “I’m better than you because of X; You don’t deserve this because of Y.” This elitist mentality is what has transformed America into “whiners and wimps.” It has given these slackers the idea that they can’t get ahead, no matter what, because “they don’t deserve it because of Y;” and led to elitists saying “I shouldn’t have to do this, because, look at me, I have done Z.” That’s not a future I’m looking forward to, and it doesn’t even revolve around who is President. Please excuse the sweeping generalizations, but it seems to have been started already.
53 Not Funny, Joker // Oct 30, 2008 at 4:02 pm

I feel so sorry for Cory Miller. His taxes are going to be returned to what they were under Clinton the Socialist….boohoo.
54 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 4:13 pm

I feel so sorry for America. Cory might just close up shop and move to Ireland.

–

Mr. Advocate, I’d be glad to wager that more than half of all those receiving government checks are slackers. Not all mind you, but one more than 50%.

What’s in it for you if you spread the wealth a bit? A more secure government job? Your reward in heaven? A bigger check in the mail for your effort in applying once a month? There’s obviously something you aren’t telling or you wouldn’t have taken the time to write so passionately.

Of all the humans in all the world, there are very, very few who don’t make a decision based on what’s in it for them. What’s yours based on?
55 j. farmer // Oct 30, 2008 at 4:27 pm

If anybody starts a debate with this Muslim garbage I immediately discount them as ignorant. Real conservatives such as Dr. Paul are the only people that have any credibility from the right. If this is conservatism in the year 2008, your party is in deep trouble. A poll from UT just came out today that showed 23% of Texans believe Barack is a Muslim. This is truly a disturbing poll that sheds some light on the state of conservatism. I live in Texas, my parents have lived in Texas their entire lives, my grandparents came to this state bought and farmed their own land in 1896. The narrative that the right spews about Obama is ridiculous. By the way Texas was a democrat stronghold for sixty years. Barry Goldwater conservatism is dead and so is the republican party.
56 Randy in Richmond // Oct 30, 2008 at 4:50 pm

j.farmer
Did they only poll conservatives?
57 j. farmer // Oct 30, 2008 at 4:55 pm

I don’t know all of the metrics of the poll. The article states that the poll surveyed 550 registered voters. Here is the link to the Houston Chronicle were the article is located. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html
58 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 5:15 pm

My argument is that Obama WAS a Muslim – and I’m not terribly sure Muslims consider leaving an option.
59 j. farmer // Oct 30, 2008 at 5:30 pm

Cindy
You just proved my point. Are you really sourcing Wikipedia? Please have some intellectual diligence. Explain how this proves Obama is or was a Muslim.
60 Randy in Richmond // Oct 30, 2008 at 5:44 pm

j. farmer
Then how do you make your conclusion about shedding light on conservatives?
61 j. farmer // Oct 30, 2008 at 5:58 pm

Randy
This is what it has come to.

“Obama was reared a Muslim, he hung around with a known domestic terrorist, he’s going to raise taxes. His goal is to redistribute wealth, a prime tenet of socialism. He had the Governor of Hawaii seal access to the his original birth certificate. (That was the little trip to see Toot, but no one really reported the real cause of that trip.)”

This pathetic argument explains everything. It loses all credibility with the majority of Americans when Cindy talks about taxes and socialism while claiming Obama was a Muslim. I guess its “ignorance by association”. By the way Randy, we never finished our discussion on the impetus of the financial crisis.
62 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 6:02 pm

Yes, I’m really sourcing Wikipedia. Lots of people do. In fact, some professors consider it one of the most up to date resources on the net.

Several sites show documents that Obama was a student in Indonesia where he was listed as a Muslim. I’m inclined to believe that. Obama has never actually addressed the issue.
63 j. farmer // Oct 30, 2008 at 6:06 pm

Cindy
I am Political Science student at the University of North Texas and I promise you that my professors would laugh me out of the room at the thought of using Wiki as a source. Nice try!
64 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 6:16 pm

I’m a Political Science graduate of the University of Wisconsin- Milwaukee, 2003. I have one at Madison and one at Marquette. Wiki is an acceptable source here. Not the only source, mind you, but for current events, it’s allowed for general understanding.

If it makes you feel better, I’ll find another source. Will the Economist do?
65 Not Funny, Joker // Oct 30, 2008 at 6:18 pm

Cindy,

No professor worth a darn would consider Wikipedia a reliable source. Stephen Colbert told his minnions to go and change stuff and they did. If you had looked at that page at that time you would be misled. How reliable is something like that?

Sure, if I want to know when the last time the Phillies won the World Series, Wikipedia is probably a good source. But if I want information on Barack Obama and his religion, I sure as heck am not going to quote Wikipedia. That’s just assanine.

This Cory guy got tons of risky business loans so he should just shut up.
66 j. farmer // Oct 30, 2008 at 6:23 pm

Cindy
That article said nothing about Obama being a Muslim. His name was not mentioned one single time. Although, the Economist did endorse obama today. Can we please raise our discourse to a respectable level.
67 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 6:27 pm

Did you look at the link? The issue was Apostasy in Islam, not Obama’s religion.

BTW, folks, Joker’s Web site and e-mail address are:

http://CindyIsAMoron.com | omfg@cindyisstupid.com

Makes you proud of the left, eh?
68 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 6:27 pm

It’s there. Click the word.
69 j. farmer // Oct 30, 2008 at 6:35 pm

Cindy
I am having trouble connecting the dots. Factcheck.org has seen and debunked this myth. Go and find out for yourself. When you get back we can move on.
70 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 6:40 pm

Well then we’re even. You quote factcheck.org, and I quote Wikipedia.

I’ve heard that move on phrase somewhere…
71 j. farmer // Oct 30, 2008 at 6:43 pm

Cindy

I will win the factcheck vs wiki argument every time. Riddle me this, what can obama do to convince you that he is not Muslim. Did I mention that the Economist endorsed obama today. I just got the “move on” joke. I have never given them the time of day.
72 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 30, 2008 at 7:02 pm

That’s why I used the Economist.

The argument between us was death as a result of trying to leave the Muslim religion. I used Wiki, you didn’t like it. I used the Economist, yet you haven’t acknowledged that in fact, death is a suggestion when leaving Islam.

Now, Obama won’t tell us anything about the issue. Yes, there have been several other places that SWEAR it’s not true, but nothing from Obama.

Who are you trying to sway? What are you trying to win? You will vote in Texas and it won’t matter a hill of beans. (I suppose you could be voting absentee somewhere else, so let me know if that’s the case.) I will vote in Wisconsin where it likely won’t matter, either.

There, don’t we both feel better now?
73 Not Funny, Joker // Oct 30, 2008 at 7:06 pm

ZOMG, CINDY FOUND ME OUT!

I’m not part of the left, but I get pissed when people complain about taxes.

We pay taxes for things like roads, the miliatry, the CIA, the FBI, to give farmers subsidies, etc. etc.

So if some of that money goes to people less fortunate, so be it.

I personally don’t make >$250K a year so my taxes won’t get raised by either candidate. But my parents do make >$250K. My father is a lawyer and he is voting for Obama. He has had to take a 10% pay cut this year because of the Real Estate market, but you don’t see him complaining about 4% more in taxes. He understands that you have to help people less fortunate then yourself.

And I still don’t understand what Obama being a Muslim would have to do with anything?

McCain IS a scum ball. He divorced his first wife after she was horribly injured in a car accident and was lucky enough to find a slut…err…mistress…err…beer distributor heiress…err…wife to help him with is political aspirations.

Palin says she is a conservative and hates socialism, but she taxes the sh!t out of oil companies in Alaska (and we in the lower 48 pay the price) and “spreads the wealth around” to Alaskan citizens. Why don’t we get some of that money? It’s not Alaskan oil, it’s American Oil right?

So Cindy, before you get into an argument with someone, learn your facts.

And if I spelled anything wrong, I’m sorry. I’m seeing red right now (no pun intended) and it makes it hard to focus.

-Not Funny, Joker.
74 Not Funny, Joker // Oct 30, 2008 at 7:10 pm

Cindy,

You’re saying that because Obama hasn’t acknowledged ridiculous attacks from the far Right then they must be true?

That’s amazing logic.
75 Randy in Richmond // Oct 30, 2008 at 8:11 pm

Joker
No, it is Alaskan oil. The oil companies bid on the right to drill for it and Alaska gets a piece of the action. Are the casinos in Las Vegas American casinos and thus all of us should get a cut? Where-ever you live should you get a cut of my state’s lottery (Virginia). Should people in California receive part of the revenues on Virginia coal? Absolutely not. And that money you say Sarah Palin is giving to the citizens of Alaska. She didn’t take it from other citizens in Alaska or anywhere else. Not even close to socialism.
I think this is the third time I’ve said this today. Barack is not going to renew the Bush tax cuts-McCain will. This will be a significant tax increase to tens of millions of Americans in all income levels. Barack carefully explains he will be taxing people at the same rate as the 90′s which is actually saying I’m going to raise your taxes without really calling it that. So yes, under Barack your taxes will go up. And if I understand, you would vote for a Muslim for President?
If you’re not part of the left what are you part of?
And you don’t need to talk to Cindy like a jerk to make your points.
76 Randy in Richmond // Oct 30, 2008 at 8:37 pm

j. farmer
You say you discount anyone as ignorant who starts off with this Muslim garbage. Did you know the person who first mentions that subject on this thread is a liberal? And though your professors won’t tell you this, it’s almost always liberals who bring up race and religion in a discussion or debate–not a conservative. In essence you called someone who believes as you do–ignorant.
77 Phil // Oct 30, 2008 at 8:47 pm

Cory is real. I’ve used his well service.

I find it quite amuzing that when the libs get a message they can’t handle, they attack the messenger.

Cory, get ready to have your privacy invaded.
78 Randy in Richmond // Oct 30, 2008 at 8:58 pm

Phil
I totally agree. And don’t forget the other part of attacking the messenger–change the subject.
79 Sean // Oct 30, 2008 at 9:11 pm

I’d like to make a prediction: If Senator Obama somehow gets elected, (God help us) about two or three months into his presidency, he will say something like:

“My fellow Americans. I have studied the budget and it is worse than I thought while I was campaigning. It is apparent that taxes will have to be raised on those making $75,000 a year and up.”

Thus begins the Greatest Depression.
80 Miles // Oct 30, 2008 at 11:28 pm

Ok, I am only 40 years old, and I am sad to say this is the first time I have ever paid any attention at all to politics. So, when it comes to many of the past particulars, I fail. I was led to this …..blog?….website?….when someone forwarded Mr. Miller’s email to me. Here is the thing, I am a small business owner whose gross profit as a business often approaches the Obama cutoff, hence my spark in interest. I have been listening to a lot of people (democrat and republican) and am really amazed at the stark contrast in opinion. What I do know is that taxes are killing me right now. Most months I am behind. I admire Mr. Miller on his work ethic, however I do wonder about his choice of expenditures. Regardless, it is his choice and really none of my business. I am worried about the future of this country, which seems to be a common concern among both parties. We should cling to that and work to find a cure. I have long wondered why a flat tax wouldn’t work, except to put the IRS out of business and cause lobbyists to look for new jobs. Loopholes suck for those who can’t get them, and rule for those who can. I was raised a nonbeliever, but am now a Christian…….I am not the same person I was then, which leads to the question, why does it matter what Obama used to be? Honestly, the whole system needs to be trashed and start over from scratch. I know, I am uneducated on politics, but I just don’t understand why everyone wants to point fingers instead of getting their feet wet and do something other than the norm to find a cure. Only a fool tries the same thing over and over again to fix the same problem.
81 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 31, 2008 at 7:16 am

Miles, thanks for stopping by. Don’t worry about the diversion to religion on this topic. It got pulled out of a little statement and made into a big deal.

Instead, you need to figure out what’s in it for you from either candidate AND you are going to need to decide if you can believe the candidate you choose.

Don’t think this country is headed in the wrong direction. It’s better off than you’re being led to believe. It’s to one sides advantage to make you feel miserable.

If you happen to head back, lay out your concerns and we’ll see if people will offer their opinions.
82 Not Funny, Joker // Oct 31, 2008 at 9:49 am

Randy,

About the oil. Alaska taxes oil companies 75% on every dollar over $25/barrel that they make.

How is that not taking money from people? You and I buy gasoline. That money funnels back to the oil companies and then Sarah Palin takes it away and gives it to Alaskan citizens who did NOTHING except live in Alaska.

In Vegas, is there a 75% tax on casion earnings that then gets paid out to Nevada citizens?

In Virginia is there a 75% tax on the lottery that then gets paid out to every Virginian?

And if I understand, you’re a racist.

What does it matter what religion someone is? I’d rather not have a fundamentalist christian who doesn’t believe in Evolution holding the codes to nuclear war heads.

And to all the people trying to say Barack Obama is a Muslim, it’s getting really old. Everyone knows he isn’t except for biggots and fearmongerers.
83 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 31, 2008 at 10:12 am

Joker, we are the United STATES of America. Alaskans have oil resources in that state. They should reap the benefits of depleting those natural resources.

You and I buy gasoline in the lower 48. We don’t have a right to claim the benefits of Alaska’s natural resource wealth.

That’s a decent idea about Vegas taxing casino earnings. But I would think most Nevada residents understand their symbiotic relationship that that business and know they’re getting about all they can from them.

Palin saw an opportunity to send value back to her constituency. The oil companies agreed to pay it. (I believe the deal was negotiated for the rights to draw oil from the state.)

Good job using racist as an argument. It tells the world you really don’t have an argument at all.
84 Sam Austin // Oct 31, 2008 at 10:16 am

j. farmer:

Sen. Obama did utter the words “my Muslim faith”.

Granted – he misspoke. But how do we decide which of his words to believe?
85 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 31, 2008 at 10:28 am

I forgot about that!
86 j. farmer // Oct 31, 2008 at 11:44 am

Cindy

“Palin saw an opportunity to send value back to her constituency. The oil companies agreed to pay it. (I believe the deal was negotiated for the rights to draw oil from the state.)”

Simply not true. The Alaska Permenant Fund was created in 1976 to pay dividends to Alaskans from the “mineral rights” of the entire state. In other words, if I owned 5,000 acres in Alaska I do not own the mineral rights to my property. This sounds like socialism to me “An economic system in which the basic means of production are primarily owned and controlled collectively, usually by government under some system”
87 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 pm

Sounds like you’d be happier in Alaska, then. Enjoy.
88 j. farmer // Oct 31, 2008 at 12:07 pm

Actually I am happy living in Texas were the gov doesn’t own the mineral rights of private property. Besides I hate cold weather.
89 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 31, 2008 at 12:26 pm

Why not move to California where you blue-state heart could have greater happiness? Texas and Alaska are both red.

I’m still trying to understand why if Alaska owns all the mineral rights there are mining claims for sale there.
90 Not Funny, Joker // Oct 31, 2008 at 12:33 pm

Seriously, if the government owned the mineral rights to some of the land around DFW, alot of people wouldn’t be getting paid assloads of money from natural gas companies. Some people were getting upwards of $20,000 per acre + 25% royalties…and OMG, it wasn’t done by the government, it was private enterprise.

And Cindy, I’m sorry, but why should Alaskans be the only ones reaping benefits from the oil? Because they were lucky enough to be born there?

Can you imagine if the state governments of other resource producing states tried to tax the hell out of the companies extracting resources?

And I understand that it is leases on government land, but why give the money back to the citizens of only Alaska?

If that’s how it is going to be, I don’t want any of my federal tax dollars going to help them.

Alaska, per capita, pays some of the lowest in federal taxes yet gets, per capita, some of the most back from the federal government.

Sounds like socialism to me when the government takes money from private enterprise and gives it back to citizens….hmmm…isn’t that what the far right is crying about with Obama’s tax plan?
91 Randy in Richmond // Oct 31, 2008 at 12:43 pm

Joker
You libs. I’ve been around a while. Just because you say it doesn’t make it true. The tax in question on Alaskan oil is a net profit tax of approx. 25 % –not on the gross price.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2007/1

You understand I’m a racist. Who told you? On what did you draw that conclusion?

So anyone who questions a belief the scientific community itself labels a theory should not be President?
You didn’t finish the last sentence in your last paragraph 0f # 82. Rather not have than what…
92 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 31, 2008 at 12:48 pm

Joker, so what’s your point again?

PS – you don’t have to fill in an e-mail or a web site. You can save me the happiness of reading your inventions.
93 Randy in Richmond // Oct 31, 2008 at 1:31 pm

j farmer
Here is your definition of socialism:

“An economic system in which the basic means of production are primarily owned and controlled collectively, usually by government under some system”

What means of production does Alaska own? What means of production does the Government control? Collecting a profits tax or owning the product does neither.
94 Not Funny, Joker // Oct 31, 2008 at 1:52 pm

Well I had a long winded diatribe all type out but then I clicked on Randy’s link (that didn’t work by the way, said “page not found”) thinking it would open in a new window, but it stayed in this window and when I clicked back my whole speach was gone…so i’ll leave you with this.

Cory should incorporate his business (if he hasn’t allready) and hire a tax attorney.

He should have gone to college if he didn’t want to work hard. But then he wouldn’t have anything to complain about.

He comes across as an East Texas Redneck when he talks about Europe: “Like all of western Europe. All countries on the decline. All countries that, because of liberal socialistic mentalities, have a little less to offer mankind every year.”

He has probably never been out of the country (sans Mexico) where he probably goes on vacation with his friends, either Can Cun or South Padre.

He complains about welfare and wealth redistribution when in fact only ~1.3% of people in the US are on welfare according to this article: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-05-04-welfare_N.htm

I wish him well in his Well drilling (haha, pun intended) and hopefully people will be able to afford his services with the cost of living and inflation out of control.

Also, he mentions how half of his retirement is gone because Obama accidently the whole economy. Well, maybe he should have hired an expert who would have said “Mr. Cory, you’ve been toiling hard your whole life and now you’re old, you probably should invest in low risk funds or bonds, perhaps even CD’s because it would be horrible for you to lose all this hard earned cash.” Plus, can’t he just retire from his businesses but they’ll still make money for him??? Or is noone else on the planet capable of running the drilling rig but him?

When he retires he should really go travel around Europe. I think he’d really appreciate how beautiful it is. And he can track his heritage back and visit where his roots are from. (I’m assuming he’s not Native American).

Also, I hope you all open your eyes and realize that the “barack obama is a muslim” routine is getting old. That’s like so 2007. The new line is that he “pals around with terrorists”.

Bye Bye

If you want to read more about both candidates go to http://www.lemonparty.com , it is a non partisan debate forum.

You can visit me at :
http://forums.clubsi.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/3165403
95 BrkfldDad // Oct 31, 2008 at 2:21 pm

NFJ, nice post on clubsi. Glad to see your a bigot, it explains a lot.
96 Randy in Richmond // Oct 31, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Joker did just like his VP candidate did when someone asked a few tough questions. He took his ball and went home.
97 Devil's Advocate // Oct 31, 2008 at 2:47 pm

Cindy,
Sorry for not replying sooner, but I’m a husband, father, and working man. Unfortunately, I won’t take your bet of more than 50% slackers. I don’t really know any figures on it (how can you really quantify who is a true slacker in the first place). But I can tell you that even if it’s 99% slackers, the 1% who aren’t deserve our help. And even slackers deserve to survive, or should we just let them die? Or, better yet, should we round them all up and kill them so we don’t have to worry about it?

What’s in it for me? Secure government job? I work for the state, but although my job is relatively secure, I’m very underpaid for it. Rewards in heaven? Heaven is a Christian concept and most Christians I know use bad words like “enable” and “entitlement.” Jesus died for us all, why can’t we give a little something ourselves? A bigger check for applying once a month? Maybe I really need it…or if not me, someone else.

What is my decision based on? Well, maybe it’s based on the fact that I’m aware that there is more to this country than myself and my pocket-book. Don’t get me wrong. The last few years have been very challenging for my family and me; we’ve had to adjust some things and make sacrifices. But we have it better than some people, maybe better than a lot of people. Another basis of mine could be that I’ve served in this country’s military with soldiers who gave the ultimate price for slackers and elitists alike. Most of those soldiers are from backgrounds that many of us would call slackers. If they can pay that price, why can’t we give a little something ourselves?

And, I’m of the same opinion as your statement: “you are going to need to decide if you can believe the candidate you choose. Don’t think this country is headed in the wrong direction. It’s better off than you’re being led to believe. It’s to one sides advantage to make you feel miserable.” The “what’s in it for you from either candidate” part needs just a little work. Certainly you need to look out for yourself, just realize that we’re all in this together. Also, it takes more than one man to really make a difference. The most important part of the voting process is to be part of it, not so much in who gets elected. The President can’t change things all by him/herself.
98 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 31, 2008 at 3:17 pm

Well while you’re going all loaves and fishes just be warned the Bible can be used to argue about any point one wants to make. We’re supposed to spare all for the sake of one, yet we’re also supposed to separate the wheat from the shaft. Granted, it’s an American that suggested that God helps those that help themselves.

We aren’t talking salvation, we’re talking about free money. I’m asking if it’s necessary to make new slackers in a program that hands out without handing up.
99 Waukesha Mom // Oct 31, 2008 at 4:01 pm

Isn’t the quote ‘separate the wheat from the chaff’?
100 Cindy Kilkenny // Oct 31, 2008 at 4:04 pm

(Blush) Yes, probably so. Shaft has a certain edge to it, though.
101 Dan H // Oct 31, 2008 at 4:19 pm

Hahah. Shaft.
102 Bostonian // Oct 31, 2008 at 10:13 pm

John McCain is a man of his word-that alone clearly speaks volumes about his character. Look at all the money Obama is spending (what happened to his word about agreeing to use only public funding), right, that speaks volumes about HIS character.

BTW- even though he outspent McCain, the polls are still rather close huh?

Yes, I AM Democrat from Massachusetts and am voting McCain.
103 Rick // Nov 1, 2008 at 9:29 am

What I’d really like to see is a candidate who talks about cutting government spending so they don’t have to take so much out of my pocket. Forget raising and lowering taxes, get a hold of the spending, just like all of us do when gas prices go up, grocery prices go up, our taxes go up, etc.
104 Randy in Richmond // Nov 1, 2008 at 9:51 am

Rick
What a novel idea.
105 Not Funny, NFJ // Nov 2, 2008 at 7:48 pm

Not Funny, Joker:

I’m not sure what having been to other countries has to do with anything, or why it’s bad to vacation in Mexico as compared to other foreign countries. Despite the flawed logic you may try to use, I just figured I should point out a few facts that may need correction:

“Cancun” is one word and South Padre Island is in fact Texas.

Just so you know.

I know it’s not fair to assume but if your geography is this weak what does that say about all of your other positions?
106 JMC // Nov 3, 2008 at 8:39 am

Good reading, it has entertained me for some time. I am forwarding an article I read in the Wall Street Journal that I found quite interesting by Professor Fouad Ajami. Many of the same thoughts I have regarding Mr. Obama. I think he is in the right place at the right time; great speaker, very charismatic and learned regarding the psychology of crowd control. Many great leaders possessed very similar traits, JFK was also quite good at this. That is the only similarity I would use between these two as others have tried to do. Please read this opinion from quite a knowledgeable individual on world affairs.

http://www.careerjournal.com/article/SB122533157015082889.html
107 Cindy Kilkenny // Nov 3, 2008 at 9:21 am

You’re right. That is a very compelling article.
108 Lisa // Nov 3, 2008 at 12:13 pm

The truth about Obama’s tax plan

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/senator_obamas_four_tax_increa.html
109 J GAMMON // Nov 3, 2008 at 3:15 pm

THANK YOU CORY, YOU ARE THE FIBER OF HOE AMERICA STARTED. AND IF ALL THE PEOPLE IN USA WOULD LOOK TO THE OLD PATHS AND SEE THAT IT WILL SHED A LIGHT ON OUR FUTURE BUT I AFRAID IN THIS WORLD OF PRIDEFUL AND UNTHOUGHTFULNESS SUCH AS THE MAN THAT SAID CORY IS PROBABLE NOT REAL HE HAS BEEN BRAINWASHED BY A SOCIETY OF T.V. MEDIA AND HE HAS NEVER THOUGHT OUTSIDE HIS ON LITTLE BOX OR ELSE HE WOULD NOT HAVE SUCH CONTEMP FOR CORY A HARD LONG SUFFERINF REAL AMERICAN. MR. WHEN THE DAY COMES WE SHALL ALL STAND IN BATTLE I WOULD HOPE ME AND MY CHILDREN WOULD BE AS BLESSED AS TO STAND BESIDE A MAN LIKE CORY I WOULD TRUST WITH MY LIFE MY CHILD AND GRANDCHILDS LIFE BUT I WOULD NOT WANT TO STAND WITH OBAMA BECAUSE HIS WIFE WOULD BE TELLING HIM THE NEXT MOVE TO MAKE AND THAT IS VERY SCARY.MAY GOD HELP US AND OUR COUNTRY
110 J GAMMON // Nov 3, 2008 at 3:27 pm

THANK YOU CORY, YOU ARE THE FIBER OF HOW AMERICA STARTED. AND IF ALL THE PEOPLE IN USA WOULD LOOK TO THE OLD PATHS AND SEE THAT, IT WILL SHED A LIGHT ON OUR FUTURE . BUT I ,M AFRAID IN THIS WORLD OF PRIDEFUL AND UNTHOUGHTFULNESS SUCH AS THE MAN THAT SAID CORY IS PROBABLE NOT REAL .HE HAS BEEN BRAIN WASHED , BY A SOCIETY OF T.V. MEDIA FRENZYAND HE HAS NEVER THOUGHT OUTSIDE HIS ON LITTLE BOX OR ELSE HE WOULD NOT HAVE SUCH CONTEMP FOR CORY ,A HARD WORKER CARING AND LONG SUFFERING REAL AMERICAN. MR. WHEN THE DAY COMES WE SHALL ALL STAND IN BATTLE I WOULD HOPE ME AND MY CHILDREN WOULD BE AS BLESSED AS TO STAND BESIDE A MAN LIKE CORY I WOULD TRUST HIM WITH MY LIFE MY CHILD AND GRANDCHILDRENS LIFE .BUT I WOULD NOT WANT TO STAND WITH OBAMA IT FRIGHTENS ME MR .BECAUSE OBAMAS WIFE WOULD BE TELLING HIM THE NEXT MOVE TO MAKE AND THAT IS VERY SCARY.MAY GOD HELP US AND OUR COUNTRY BECAUSE WE ARE LIVING IN SAD TIMES FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR CHILDREN. GOD BLESS YOU CORY I,M A SINGLE PARENT THAT WORKED TWO JOBS TO KEEP OFF WELFARE AND SEND MY SON TO PRIVATE SCHOOL.
111 Bart // Nov 3, 2008 at 3:41 pm

For those of you that are Obama supporters and are concerned about the impact of government’s policies on the small and medium sized business, I suggest that you take a hard look at his proposals for healthcare and organized labor. Put the issue of taxation on the back burner for a while.

Mandating coverage for healthcare, namely requiring insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions shows that Obama has a fundamental lack of understanding of the how the insurance industry works. Requiring insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions eliminates their primary business objective, that being to provide coverage to people who are healthy in case they get sick or injured. If health insurers decide to stay in business under this mandate, it will certainly raise their cost of doing business, a cost that must be passed on to their customers. Under this mandate, not only will health insurance be more expensive for individuals (contrary to Obama’s promises) it will be more costly to business, far in excess of any tax credits that Obama will extend to business for the creation of jobs (if the creation of jobs is possible under his administration).

Obama’s support and sponsorship of The Employee Free Choice Act, The Re-Empowerment of Skilled and Professional Employees and Construction Tradesworkers Act (RESPECT Act) and the repeal of Section 14(b) of the Taft-Hartley Act will essentially eliminate any rights a business has to chose whether they employ union labor or not. The mandate from this combination of legislation will break the backs of many businesses putting even more people out of work and destroying a life of work for many entrepreneurs.

Couple these issues with Obama’s promises of higher taxes for those above “middle-class”, as he defines it, and you’ll have less incentive to start or expand businesses, less investment of private capital, small and medium sized business failing at a higher rate, higher unemployment and more economic desperation and upheaval.

Regarding the claims that Obama will “stimulate millions of jobs through incentive packages for renewable fuel and clean energy”, that point is certainly debatable. My belief is that government spending isn’t going to stimulated anything until demand is strong enough to justify the investment. Renewable fuel and clean energy are worthy ideals and certainly something that the world needs to develop. But the price for development should be borne by the consumer demanding it and not on the backs of American taxpayers, under the premise that government is going to catapult us into a new age.

Through higher consumer prices and increases in taxation, the responsibility for paying for his plans will ultimately fall back upon people that he says that he is trying to protect, the middle-class and working poor. In the process he’ll cause irreparable harm to the foundation (entrepreneurialism) upon which our country was built, not only for this generation but for future generations as well.
112 waukesha mom // Nov 3, 2008 at 3:47 pm

Bart -

My brother is a diabetic. He’s been one for 15 years, and will be one until he dies.

Are you saying he shouldn’t have access to health insurance for a year (the customary waiting period for a pre-existing condition), because he has a pre-existing condition?

Seems to me it’s far less expensive to have insurance to manage his condition, than to have NO insurance, with the very real danger of a systemic shutdown, don’t you think?
113 Bart // Nov 3, 2008 at 4:38 pm

waukesha mom

Insurance companies are already required to provide coverage for pre-existing conditions of patients who have continuing coverage from previous carriers. That’s a good thing. It continues coverage for those people who were healthy when they first obtained coverage and prevents them from losing coverage if they change jobs or health insurance providers. But if you require health insurance companies to provide initial coverage to someone who has not had coverage, voluntarily or not, it eliminates the primary objective of the insurance business. That is to make a enough profit from the premiums of people who are healthy to be able to pay the claims of those who have coverage and become sick or injured. If you mandate initial coverage for pre-existing conditions, you eliminate the need for healthy people to carry insurance. Why pay for premiums while you are healthy if the government will make the insurance company pay when you get sick? It makes no sense and will only result in exorbitant premiums for everyone, individuals and business alike, that is assuming any insurance company chooses to stay in business.

What this will ultimately result in is what Obama claims he is not in favor of, and that is nationalized (government provided) healthcare. I don’t believe he is ignorant about the fundamentals of the health insurance industry. I think nationalized healthcare is his ultimate goal but he knows he can’t come out publically on that issue yet and get elected. Thus you have these hollow policy statements that seem to his supporters to be the answer.
114 Bart // Nov 3, 2008 at 5:02 pm

waukesha mom

Upon reading my initial response, I’m not sure I answered your question wouldn’t it be “less expensive to have insurance to manage his condition, than to have NO insurance, with the very real danger of a systemic shutdown…?”

I assumed that, having the condition for fifteen years, your brother now has coverage. As you said, the waiting period for pre-ex conditions is generally twelve months. I hope that your brother was wise enough to secure coverage before his diabetes was diagnosed and that he was not subject to the pre-ex clause of the policy. We all need to be concerned about how our medical costs will be paid if we are sick or injured and obtain coverage for the right reason. I think it is bad policy to encourage people to wait until they become sick or injured to look to someone else to help them pay their bills.

My answer is it certainly will not be less expensive, for the insurance companies and ultimately those who pay their premiums, to mandate intial coverage for pre-ex conditions without the waiting period. The person who fails to carry coverage, or is unfortunate enough to be unable to do so, will certainly pay a steep price in the event they suffer “a systemic shutdown” during the waiting period. To expect the insurance industry to pay that tab is naive. Whether to pass that cost onto the taxpayer IS the question that we should be discussing but Obama chooses to disguise the issue.
115 Kate Webster // Nov 4, 2008 at 10:47 am

Boo Hoo Hoo, I make over $250,000 a year so I have to pay taxes. And I worked SO HARD and had NO HELP.

Other than being white and male of course. Try your story as a black or Hispanic woman.
No wife, no childcare, no respect from the good old boys.

My husband and I both worked very hard and guess what, we don’t make over $250,000 per year. I guess it’s because we are slackers who didn’t really try and were waiting for a handout. Oops, that would include almost all Americans. I guess you really are a special special person.
116 Timbo // Nov 5, 2008 at 9:23 am

For those like Kate Webster who think that you are entitled to the wealth that was created by the efforts of others only by virtue of the fact that you have less than they do, please remember that there are those who have less than YOU who will stake the same claim on what YOU have! Therefore the only way to have equality is to make everyone as bad off as the worst off-the logical end result of socialism.

When America has descended into the hell on earth that is Socialism, I hope all of you who voted for Obama remember the words of Ayn Rand: BROTHER YOU ASKED FOR IT!!!! Kate and all you liberals-THINK for once about what it is you are really wishing for, because you just might get it!
117 Texas // Nov 5, 2008 at 1:56 pm

TIMBO…you said it!!!

Everyone definately has to be careful what they wish for and so far the people who voted Obama are going to have a RUDE awakening. I DO NOT HAVE ANY money to spare, but I guess those with less will get what I earn because where Obama originally started was $42,000 GROSS (for those who are clueless, THIS IS BEFORE TAXES!!!) and most american’s total household income (THAT ARE TRUE WORKERS and NOT ON WELFARE) make this kind of money. Those that are on welfare, HAVE NO RIGHT TO TALK about what they can get, because they already receive PLENTY. If you feel you do not receive enough, get off your couch and find a job. Welfare is a way to keep those who do not care to work…lazy and those of us who do work paying for welfare already. I say that to say this you are already getting my money, why should we raise taxes to cover what so many are already receiving? THIS DOES effect all, and you watch it will increase unemployment and then I ask, where does the welfare, medicaid, social security for illigals etc come from?
118 Texas // Nov 5, 2008 at 2:43 pm

Oh and by the way “Kate”, just because you are white does not mean you get speacial treatment! I am SO SICK and tired of having the “race card” pulled on whites. I am certainly NOT racist, and MY ancestors were one of the hated groups in America and some may argue treated worse than slaves, but I do not complain of how my ancestors were treated because our country has overcome and we are able to receive jobs as high up as ANY american…yes, even a black or hispanic woman! As a matter of fact I just had an interview today with a WOMAN that is a CFO! Our country has come a LONG way and we keep trying to get better. I just do my job, pay my bills and get through my day, you see, I TOO work VERY HARD to make a living for my self and my family, if that means working myself to the bones to get in a higher position I WILL! I CAN do what I WANT as we DO live in a free country and all we have to do is work VERY hard to get what we want. Obama originally started at $42,000 Gross on his tax increase and increased that number to $250,000 while running for president, and there is documented proof that he is trying to lower that number to $100,000 GROSS. You see my family’s Gross income is around $60,000 (this is before taxes)I work HARD for my family and do NOT take it lightly that any government would want to take my HARD EARNED money away from my babies mouths. If Obama has eluded to the fact of it being $250,000, what makes you think he would not lower it all the way back down to $42,000. Even if he stays with $250,000 this is GROSS sales, which means before payroll, taxes, bills etc. Therefore not only does the business lose out, but so does hard working American’s like you and I. YOU AND THE REST OF AMERICA are effected by this.

I am so glad Kate understood this
119 Chap // Nov 6, 2008 at 2:28 pm

Quite an interesting read, and the longer people argue, the further off-topic people seem to get.

I’ve got a few observations, call me an idiot, I don’t care, just something to THINK about.

First of all, I admire Cory. Someone said, “Just go to college,” telling him he needed more business training. I would argue that most blue collar companies are not created by college grads. That’s why most people go to college, so they don’t have to “dig ditches,” or wells in this case. AND have you seen the price of tuition these days? Think everyone can afford college?

The main idea that I took from Cory’s letter is that entitlement is a problem in America. Not in the liberal sense that someone is better than someone else. I permeates every level of our society, from the richest CEOs, to upper managers, to their teenage sons and daughters, to many welfare recipients. “I earned this $50 million running this company into the ground,” or “Daddy, I want an iPhone,” or “The government owes me for _____.”

People at all levels feel entitled. Cory didn’t. Oh make no mistake, there are many things he wanted, but he never expected someone to simply give them to him.

I am not going to say that everyone on welfare is lazy. But I’m not going to say everyone who’s on welfare needs it either. The system is simply broke. Candidates should have campaigned on how to fix the system…Obama couldn’t do that or he’d lose too many votes. But that’s beside the point.

Our current welfare system, while beneficial to many, still rewards laziness, throwing more money at it will only make it worse, and continue to enslave a generation into government dependency. I don’t want to have to depend on the government for survival. And I don’t want to work to put food in the mouths of those who refuse to work. I have no problem helping out those in need…Assistance is great, but reliance is the problem.

I would also like to point out that I think Cory has literally created more jobs for this country than Obama, McCain or Bush. Presidents don’t create jobs. They can either make it easy or more difficult for companies to create them.

And don’t forget, businesses don’t pay taxes…their customers do. Corporations will only pass on their increased costs to consumers. You and me. Our cost of living increases and they continue to make money.

Remember trickle-down economics? It’s true, but the sad part is that while increased costs trickle down quite fast, decreased costs trickle much slower and may stop at the shareholders before the consumers, but that’s business any way you look at it.

There are no easy solutions, my only hope is that much of Obama’s talk was simply campaign rhetoric. I can’t say I voted for him, and at this point, it doesn’t matter. I’ll support him as much as I can. Because sitting back and complaining isn’t going to accomplish anything. I guess we’ll see where this goes.

Thank you Cory for your story and keep up the great work.
120 Philip // Nov 8, 2008 at 3:57 pm

CHAP,
much of what you said I agree with in principle…thank you for presenting your views fairly objectively. There are many on here that spew venom instead of simply expressing a view.

Here’s another view, free of hate and venom just like yours…thank you for reading:

I share your hope for a better life for everybody and a just system of government. I don’t think either a “Republican” or a “Democratic” philosophy correctly represents that hope. Nor does adhering to or promoting “conservative” or “liberal” agendas.

I read the whole “Well Driller” thing Mr. Miller, and while very inspiring unfortunately the last third of it decomposed into a diatribe against “liberals”. Don’t lose focus on the fact that you are crying over the rollback of a questionable tax cut that only amounts to giving up a 3% tax cut in a tax bracket that never should have gotten it in the first place.

You begin your complaint section with the following very questionable point: “This should work out, but if it doesn’t it will be because you [Obama], and the other professional politicians like yourself, will have destroyed our country’s’ (and the world) economy with your meddling with mortgage loan programs through your liberal manipulation and intimidation of loaning institutions to make sure that unqualified borrowers could get mortgages.”

I would like to know how many “conservative” heads of banking, at Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Fanny & Freddy Mac, AIG, our Treasury Dept. and our Federal Reserve, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of mortgage loan department heads at thousands of banking institutions across the country can honestly say they didn’t participate in, benefit from and yes, dream up the irresponsible financial instruments that were sliced and diced and repackaged until nobody knew what their true value was any more, then fraudulently misrepresented and sold and resold to countless innocent investors globally while our “conservative” rating agencies, Moody’s and Standard and Poor’s maintained falsely high ratings on all these firms? I guess all these people, plus those that lobbied Congress for the benefit of the hedge funds (all of which manage, legally, to pay minimal or no taxes on their gains), plus all those involved in the credit default swap debacle, plus everybody at the SEC that allowed the Depression era price uptick stock selling law to be changed conveniently in 2007, and allowed naked shorting of stocks to continue unpunished, ALL THESE PEOPLE were “liberal” think tank types? Is that what you Mr. Miller wants us to believe? Sure sounds like it. Fortunately I am not that uninformed. I take the trouble to inform myself… Mr. Miller, you may know everything under the sun about drilling but he sounds like you need some input from people who don’t fit the label of ‘conservative” or “liberal”. Of course, you’ll have to set your ego aside first; that is the almost impossible step so many cannot find the courage to take.

It is oh so easy to be a so-called or self named “conservative” and to lash out and blame the so-called “liberals” for everything that has gone wrong in our country, or vice-versa. It is much more difficult (and humbling) to think outside the box and get beyond these unfortunate labels. A lifetime of tying oneself to either of these self identities is part of what has polarized our dysfunctional country into an exclusively two party electorate. The saddest thing about this election is not that Obama beat the Republicans. The saddest thing is that NOT ONE third party candidate took a seat in the new Congress! Also, NOT ONE third party candidate for President managed to get even 1% of the vote.

Anyone that overly rejoices the Obama victory is blind to what makes our system of government as poorly functional as it is. Anyone that overly regrets McCain’s loss commits the same mistake.
121 PLEASE RESPOND // Nov 8, 2008 at 4:18 pm

Hello all,

How many participants on this forum would agree that Congress, not our President(s), is mainly at fault for our nation’s ills?

How many agree that the dominance of the two party system is greatly to blame for the corrupt government by Congress?

How many agree that the time has come for an effort to begin to free Congress from 2-party control and are willing to actually do something concrete about it?
122 Tinkerbell // Nov 8, 2008 at 4:26 pm

I understood that McCain pointed out the mortgage problem some time ago. But other politicians did not choose to take it seriously, nor change policies while there was still time to head off disaster.

Perhaps they belived they could use the timing of an impending financial implosion to their benefit?

What does anyone think should be done now?
Is the government the largest US employer?
Is this seen as economic stability or economic burden?
- Should we strive for a balanced budget?
- Reduce Government – provide only essential services as outlined by our forefathers?
- Reduce Government jobs?
- Reduce Government pork?
- Reduce Government grants?
- Close the borders for illegal immigrants?
- Refuse services, payments, tax-dollar supported benefits, subsidized housing to illegal immigrants?
- Refuse voting rights to illegal immigrants?
- Require not only proof of residency but also proof of citizenship for voters?
- Deport illgal immigrants?
- Privitize Social Security?
- Remove penalities for 401K withdrawals?
- Determine the deficit per individual and per family and have families start paying their individual shares back?
- Encourage solar & wind power to individuals?
- Encourage self-reliance?
- Encourage “victory gardens”?
- Encourage health by promoting the virtues of taking walks?

What are a half-dozen or so things you think may be helpful, starting where you understand we are at right now?
123 Tinkerbell // Nov 8, 2008 at 4:38 pm

Dear RSVP,

I personally agree that Congress bears responsibilty.

HOWEVER I would NOT cast down a 2-party system until I understood what you were proposing in it’s place.

I may agree with several Independent candidates, even Libertarian. The presence of these important voices saves us from being a 2-party system.

But a ONE party system? NO, NO, a thousand times NO!

“POWER CORRUPTS.
ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.”

The problem, dear RSVP, begins when one believes they are too great to bother listening to and learning from others.

This happens in every level of government, from the ivory towers of education, to chiefs-of-staff.

The Grassroots is where it’s at, growth fueled by fertilizer and all.

If you have a plan to encourage our 1st amendment rights and have intelligent, not condescening conversations about how a dozen or more ideas may play out in the local, national, and world-wide arenas, we are all ears. (Michelle would like that.)
124 Randy in Richmond // Nov 8, 2008 at 7:04 pm

Phillip
I don’t blame the ‘so-called liberals’ for the mess we’re in, I blame mostly the liberals. What you’re saying is that if Congress passes a law legalizing gambling, and later people participating lose their life savings and have hard times, it’s the fault of the casino owners, dealers, investors, bellhops, pit bosses, and also the boards and agencies that oversee it all. Is it the brokers fault when one’s stocks fall? Most likely these people are conservatives and liberals alike operating within the law as approved by Congress. But the ultimate decision to put the chips out there, to sign up for that ARM Loan, is the person placing the bet, asking for the loan. It was Congress who put this mess in motion allowing unqualified, or underqualified, people to get loans that shouldn’t have.
And you define yourself when you accuse Mr. Miller of receiving a tax cut he shouldn’t have gotten. I also agree with your argument against the third party system.
125 Tinkerbell // Nov 8, 2008 at 8:17 pm

Methinks 3rd party candidates do not get much of the vote simply because we know less about them. It’s not necessarily that they outside of Main Street thinking. Perhaps if we saw a blind comparison of position statements, determined which statements we personally agreed with, then learned who made teh statements, we might find ourselves to be supporters of these 3rd parties.

So much for theory. In practice, it’s the power of almighty advertising dollar at work (or the lack thereof).
126 Tinkerbell // Nov 9, 2008 at 9:11 am

Dear RSVP, RandyIR, Philip, et al…

The smaller parties may be analogous to the Japanese style of management: receiving as valuable EVERYONE’s input. This supports 1st amendment rights. You might not want to tinker with it.

Meanwhile management Theory X may be analogous to Dem thinking,

and management Theory Y may be analogous to Republican thinking.

One party system may be regarded as paternalistic, socialistic, communistic.

PS: Have you heard the O’speak from the O’transition team? They are declaring that O’bama must be ready to “RULE” from day 1. Interesting choice of words. Not “govern”. Not “serve”. But “rule”. Hmm, is he a king, the first American Dynasty? (note the word nasty is found in Dynasty and this wasn’t even an anagram game!) Will he be declaring Martial Law, extending his 4-year-term indefinately?
127 Chap // Nov 9, 2008 at 1:46 pm

I just have one more thing to add.

We’re at the point now, where we are all in this mess together, Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Greens, Labors, Whigs, Socialists, Black Panthers, Veterans, Patriots….all of us.

How do we get out of it? By pointing fingers and blaming each other? No. Was it one specific party? No. Were there individuals and ideals from each party that when mixed together created the opportunity for this disaster? Absolutely. Like it or not, we created this mess together. That’s exactly how we are going to get out of it.

We have went from a nation with a ‘can-do’ attitude to one that want’s to point fingers and wait for someone to get us out of it, and then complain that they didn’t do it fast enough.

If you want this forum to mean something, take a look at Tink’s list above and start debating some of the ideas listed. Make some attempt at progress.

Bashing Cory does not do any good. He simply told his story. Everyone has a story. And every one of those stories has their own shoulda, woulda, coulda. Fact is, none of that matters anymore. We’ve got to move on.

Everyone take care, hope this helps spark the BEST in everyone here, not the worst.
128 PLEASE RESPOND // Nov 9, 2008 at 3:55 pm

Tinkerbell,
ty for your comments.

The 2 party system would be much improved if a viable 3rd party were offering a change from business as usual politics.

I think there is general agreement among voters on establishing term limits. Would it be attractive if a new party were founded on the promise of setting and respecting their term to 4 years if elected Representative and one 6 year term if elected to the Senate? Isn’t the quest for reelection what ultimately corrupts what should simply be a relatively short period of public service and patriotism?

Thoughts?
129 PLEASE RESPOND // Nov 9, 2008 at 5:00 pm

to Randy in Richmond

Cory Miller said: “It’s funny, because after 25 years of turning almost every dime of extra money back into my businesses to grow them, it has been only in the last two years that I have finally made enough money to be able to put a little away for retirement, and now the value of that has dropped 40% because of the policies you [Obama] and your ilk have perpetrated on our country. ”

Paying particular attention to the “and now the value of that has dropped 40% because of the policies you [Obama] and your ilk have perpetrated on our country. ” part of his rant,
I answered: ” I would like to know how many “conservative” heads of banking, at Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Fanny & Freddy Mac, AIG, our Treasury Dept. and our Federal Reserve, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of mortgage loan department heads at thousands of banking institutions across the country can honestly say they didn’t participate in, benefit from and yes, dream up the irresponsible financial instruments that were sliced and diced and repackaged until nobody knew what their true value was any more, then fraudulently misrepresented and sold and resold to countless innocent investors globally while our “conservative” rating agencies, Moody’s and Standard and Poor’s maintained falsely high ratings on all these firms? I guess all these people, plus those that lobbied Congress for the benefit of the hedge funds (all of which manage, legally, to pay minimal or no taxes on their gains), plus all those involved in the credit default swap debacle, plus everybody at the SEC that allowed the Depression era price uptick stock selling law to be changed conveniently in 2007, and allowed naked shorting of stocks to continue unpunished, ALL THESE PEOPLE were “liberal” think tank types? Is that what you Mr. Miller wants us to believe? ”

So you see, Mr. Miller does not know what he is talking about. It is common knowledge that loan officers (ie., the bank) are the ones who decide who gets a loan and who doesn’t, not the individual requesting the loan. There was never any mandate obliging banks to make the risky, irresponsible loans they made. After the failure of Lehman, banks INDEPENDENTLY began to stiffen requirements and turn down loan requests. In other words they wised up. Got over their greed induced orgy of high leverage lending.

Mr. Miller makes some valid points, but overall his thinking is too “black or white”, too biased and too uninformed to make it worth repeating as if it were a good summary of anything. It is a real shame people are copying and pasting his post all around as if it had great merit. Way too biased.
130 Tinkerbell // Nov 9, 2008 at 5:18 pm

Thank you Chap. Keep up the good work.

Dear RSVP, 3rd parties not viable? Translates into lackamoola. Why no financial backers? Possibly nothing to be gained for them personally if a streamlined government (as envisioned by 3rd parties) was in place.

I do not necessarily believe it is the desire for re-election per se which corrupts. It is power, quest for power, unquenchable thirst for power, lust for power.

Just like it was insatiable greed that is undermining the economy.

Like ripples on a pond one act on one day can have profound and far-reaching effects. The policies set in play may reverberate throughout the land for many a year. It took about 9 years for the Clintonesque decision to grant mortgages to less qualified borrowers, to reach a tipping point.

What causes you to believe there is general agreement among voters on establishing term limits diferrent from those which exist today?

We absolutely DO want to review and assess and vote, so we absolutely do NOT want people to declare themselves in charge forever such as by Martial Law.

But the number of subsequent terms may be determined by the quality of the individual. There are, I believe, selfless and dedicated lifetime politicians, and there are corrupt and morally bankrupt individuals who seek to become power brokers and politicians. This apart from length of service.

Then there are those who may be effective in their service for a few years, make valuable connections, and then begin making regrettable compromises.

Patriotism comes in many forms, it can be in the form of listening & encouraging, planting a garden, or fervent and uplifting prayer. All who serve are not in the public eye.
131 Tinkerbell // Nov 9, 2008 at 5:40 pm

Hey RSVP,
Please re-read the last two paragraphs of Chap’s comment 127. Cory wote what he knew. Please respect that his knowledge base and his perspective may be different than yours, mine, anyone else’s. It is genuine and valid. Cory has seen the ebb and flow of his finances… like the tide on a beach… there one moment, gone the next.

Like it or not, the policy & practice of granting home loans to underqualifed borrowers is not a conservative idea but a “liberal” idea. This having nothing to do with parties, other than these words are aptly used to describe them, as much as one can sum up the philosophies of a throng of thousands in a single word. The mortgage practice is one item known to have brought down the economy. Many can feel Cory’s pain and feel a bond with him even though his form of expression may not be theirs.

I will not judge Cory Miller The Well Driller. I will empathize. I can pray for unburdening of his heart, for hard-working employees to be led to his business, for sustained growth of his business, for the economy in general. These times provide a great sifting of people’s values.

RSVP, please do not attempt to isolate, marginalize, or ostracize, for people all have nuggets of wisdom to share. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If we, as a collective bunch of doers and thinkers and tinkers who have one thing in common: our love of our 1st amendments rights to free speech, somehow offend you… feel free to spout about it! But don’t expect to have any influence in stifling a fellow citizen’s 1st amendment rights.
132 Randy in Richmond // Nov 9, 2008 at 7:01 pm

Please Respond
Usually I only reply to real names even if they are fictitious. Here I make an exception. You say: “There was never any mandate obliging banks to make the risky, irresponsible loans they made.”. You need to familiarize yourself with the 1992 Enterprise Bill that set targets, “quotas” if you will, for Fanny Mae/Mac. Those targeted were the un and under qualified home buyers in the 34% of families who didn’t own homes. It danced around the verbage but these quotas were aimed primarily at minorities. In 1992 the ‘target’ was 21 % of loans made and it slowly rose till in 2008, under Bush, it was 39 %. And who did Congress direct these quotas toward–Fanny Mae/Mac, who in reality don’t make loans directly. Obviously Fanny Mae/Mac passed these ‘quotas’ along to the lending institutions who had to meet the requirements or Fanny wouldn’t buy or back the institution’s loans on any level.
Oh yea, there’s plenty of blame to go around but this was put in motion and fueled by Congress. When their own regulators pointed this out to them in public hearings, members of Congress either ignored or ridiculed them.
Here’s a few minutes of fun from 2004, when if action had been taken it would be a much smaller mess now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa0agm7lIPQ
133 Tinkerbell // Nov 10, 2008 at 7:52 am

Dear RiR,
Thanks for being an accurate and detailed historian for us. As much as I believe it is important to know where we are and make a plan to proceed from here, I believe it is important to recall how we got here. Simply because “History Repeats Itself”. Unless we learn from it and make a concerted effort.
Kudos!

Dear RSVP,
It is time to show your hand. What say YOU about the myriad of topics you’ve inquired of us? And as for the questions themselves, they appear to be stumbling blocks… means to squelch some in favor of “consensus”… a might-makes-right approach… A strong-arm decision-making in which “silence means consent”, and no decision will be revisited once you tell us it has been made, supposedly with our input.

You have introduced yourself as a poll-taker and catalyst. Time to step out of the shadows and take a stand. Please focus on the issues and tell us, based on your understanding of how policies & practices have played out so far, what possibilities do you see for several potential scenarios going forward?
134 Faol-Inc.Com - Business Company » Will You Be a Leader? // Nov 10, 2008 at 8:36 am

[...] am signing-off and wish you all the best by paraphrasing a signature tagline by Cory Miller, also known as Core the Well Driller. I am just an ordinary, extraordinary “trader in matter [...]
135 It’s The Bailout, Stupid at McDonald 2012 // Nov 10, 2008 at 10:32 pm

[...] to punish your success” but I will as a means to an end). There were ordinary, extraordinary Americans standing up for free markets and their right to pursue their own happiness. There was a financial [...]
136 ChooseTheHero.com » Blog Archive » Cory the Well Driller: I resent you, Mr. Obama // Nov 11, 2008 at 3:13 am

[...] was contacted via email by Cindy Kilkenny at Fairly Conservative to verify this letter and Cory’s response was as follows: [...]
137 Birth Certificate // Nov 12, 2008 at 12:59 pm

People are missing the obvious about Obama’s birth certificate. I am not from Hawaii and have not seen a sample birth certificate from the 60s when Mr. Obama was born – but most birth certificates “back in the day” would note the Religion of the family.

His father was Muslim. No dispute on this point!
If there is a field on that Birth Certificate for “religion” – guess what it says?

Otherwise, there is nothing strange or unusual about the paper or the circumstance.
138 Tinkerbell // Nov 12, 2008 at 1:59 pm

Dear BirthCertificate,

I say you ought to be certified! What a nut-case, spouting your lack of qualifications as though they were qualifications… all to lead us to your speculation about religion… and then a conclusion that all is well! That is just the dang funniest thing I have read in a while.

Did you have anything to actually say?

(pause for sip of coffee)

There, now that’ve regained my composure and stopped laughing…

Dear BC,
Do I understand correctly that you think BO’s BC may or may not note parentage of a certain faith and you have no other concerns regarding it, it’s authenticity, nor the guarded manner in which it has been treated? Okey-Dokey. Since you are such a frequent commentor in this blog*, it was great of you to share that opinion with us. We all have wondered, each time you posted a comment, just what you though of BO’s BC and when you might get around to sharing that opinion with us. Now we know. Made my day!

Personally I think you were taking a free ride on broad distribution of your propaganda because of all the pingbacks indicating other sites are linking to this thread.

*(frequent commentor on this blog): A wry bit of humor since this was Birth Certificate’s 1st post and the posting name obviously contrived to match the subject.
139 Cory Miller // Nov 15, 2008 at 9:46 pm

Randy in Richmond,
I’m glad there are some people who actually have researched the history of how the current financial crisis developed. I have too. Unfortunately, too many people want to blame wall street, or bankers, or Bush, because it suits their pre-suppositions. Don’t bother them with the facts. Yes, there were participants who made these loans out of greed – of course. But if there had not been a market created and supported by Fannie/Freddy for these bad mortgages the “greed” would have prevented this debacle. That is the point. This has not been a failure of the “free market” system. Rather, it is a failure of a “manipulated market” system – manipulated by pressures and policies put in place by congress to provide mortgages to un/under qualified borrowers. Without congresses bad policies, the “free market” would have cruised along just fine, whether through greed or wisdom, it matters not. Now the liberals want to characterize this mess as proof that the “free market” system has failed. Nothing could be further from the truth. But if they yell it loud enough, long enough, they’ll get enough people to believe it and turn more toward socialism as the solution. Anyway, I for one, appreciate someone who has done their homework. As to those who have attacked my character above based on how I used credit cards to fund my mud pump venture, I suggest you walk into your bank of choice tomorrow and tell the banker you have just invented a new type of pump that is a complete departure from how pumps have always been built, and ask for a $150,000.00 loan to start manufacturing them. Oh, be sure to tell the banker you are not an engineer, and that you have never manufactured anything. Good luck with that…
Cory the well driller
140 Tinkerbell // Nov 16, 2008 at 9:15 am

AMEN ! Do you mind me repeating:

“This has not been a failure of the “free market” system. Rather, it is a failure of a “manipulated market” system – manipulated by pressures and policies put in place by congress to provide mortgages to un/under qualified borrowers. Without congresses bad policies, the “free market” would have cruised along just fine, whether through greed or wisdom, it matters not. Now the liberals want to characterize this mess as proof that the “free market” system has failed. Nothing could be further from the truth. But if they yell it loud enough, long enough, they’ll get enough people to believe it and turn more toward socialism as the solution. ”

It is our job to use our 1st amendment rights of free speech to be the counterpoint voice!
141 Cory Miller // Nov 16, 2008 at 12:03 pm

And thanks to my brother, George, for standing up for me above. He still knows how to stand up for his little brother. FYI… As of Friday the 14th, my website had 155,000+ hits on the counter (it doesn’t show hundreds of thousands). When I first sent my letter to Obama out Monday the 20th of October, my website counter was at about 4,000 hits for the last 7 years I’ve had the website. So since then I have received an average of more hits per day than the previous 7 years. I have also received over 10,000 emails, of which I still have not been able to read more than 6,000. Of these emails, 98% of the ones I have read have been supportive of my views, and 2% have been negative. The single most recurring statement in these emails is “you’ve hit the nail on the head”… There are alot of good Americans out there who still know what made this country great
142 Kirby // Nov 18, 2008 at 3:16 pm

Mr. Miller,
I just heard you on Hannity’s radio show and want you to know how much your letter touch me when I first read it weeks ago. Now I know it is true. I too have spent 32 years in the oil and gas business and know the struggles that we have had thru the years. Although I never started my own business, I have respect for those who did and kept me employed these 32 years. Good luck in all your future endeavors.
143 Ray // Nov 18, 2008 at 4:32 pm

Nothing will change in America till the American people decide to take their republic back. The Republicans and the Democrats have been in power to long. Both parties are corrupt and have no respect for the American people. They tax and spend while we need to watch and cut spending in our budgets. They can even vote themselves a raise. I bet you can’t do that.?We need a party for the American people that values and respects us. Remember this was at one time a counrty for the people by the people.
As long as the American people keep putting the same old politicians in office, even the corrupt ones get re-elected, we will never see what every body is looking for….CHANGE……. Look at Obama’s new cabinet he is building… I see no change. Same old washington politicians…..America ,you have been had again by slick talking politicians….. As for me ,Joe the Plumber and Corey the well driller are the people we need in washington. The ordinary run of the mill Americans……….Wake up you so called Americans…..Change this country back the way our fore fathers set it up….

Corey, I think you touched a lot of the America some of us want back.
FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE
144 Faith // Nov 18, 2008 at 5:03 pm

Ray is right…When gas goes up I have to cut something out of my budget. I have to make decisions on how to spend MY money wisely. Unlike washington where they spend other peoples money and when they overspend they ask me for more. Spending what they get wisely is not in their vocabulary. I was hoping for change in Obama but I see the same old washington insiders in his cabinet. So much for change. Looks like that is what I will have left in my pocket. I am fed up with both parties. They have both run this country into the ground. Now they want to bail out the car companies. They wouldn’t bail me out when my company needed it. The banks wouldn’t help either unless you have A+ credit rating. That is why the car companies can’t get any money from the bank. They lost their credit rating. I want my republic back…………….FOR THE PEOLE BY THE PEOPLE and a new American Party with real Americans in it.
Washington needs a house cleaning real bad but I think the American people as just too stupid to take it away from the elitist.
145 Olive Oyl // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:24 pm

Corey-
I heard your story for the first time tonite on Sean H.’s radio show, on my way home from work. My husband and I are also small business owners (precision machining), begun 29 years ago. Your story is our story. Our only investment for 27 years was building our business. Never ask for a handout from the government. When we were raising young kids, we were candidates for food stamps. But, we didn’t know it, didn’t expect it, didn’t ask for it. We were too busy working, surviving, building our business.

We now employ 20 people, and will soon employ 6 more, as we are purchasing another business. We made “too much” money for the first time the last two years, and were advised by every sensible person to put it into a money market…a savings for our retirement. Well, I think you know what happened to that.

I come from a mostly liberal family, but I have definately developed into a conservative thinker, after being in my own business for 29 years. The family doesn’t understand, doesn’t know how or why we work so hard. They are lawyers, health care workers, government workers, etc. We are worlds apart. We are proud of our survival skills and all that we have done. And, our sons are inheriting the business someday, I can proudly say.

You hit so many nerves in your letter to Obama. I am fearful of the next generation and the one after that. As we head more and more to a socialistic society, the children expect everything to be handed to them. There is less and less innovation, drive, work ethic, inventiveness, motivation, etc. As Tito the Builder said: I do not want or need the crumbs on your plate, I want freedom to make my own living.

Cory- it was wonderful to hear your story. I think we are few, but there others out here like you. It is the foundation of America. If they destroy us, America will crumble.
146 Jesse // Nov 19, 2008 at 5:57 am

We want out country back washington.
FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE.
Long live the Republic and the NEW AMERICA PARTY
Give me liberty or give me death
147 Justin // Nov 19, 2008 at 9:13 am

I live down the road from Cory Miller. A friend also forwarded the letter to me, which I sent on to Sean Hannity, who, yesterday (11/18/08) read it on the air and then called Mr. Miller for an interview. I recorded the interview and posted it at http://www.brookhavenretreat.org/c_miller_on_hannity.htm.
148 Cindy Kilkenny // Nov 19, 2008 at 9:15 am

Justin, thanks!
149 TWG // Nov 19, 2008 at 3:22 pm

Mr. Miller,
Thank you for sharing your story. I trust and believe you will not let the hecklers comments disturb you as you have endured much more than their ridiculous comments over the last 25 years. You have it right! This is the way Amercia was founded – boats with no motors and no easy way out and no entitlement mentalities. I would like to meet you, men like you with a backbone instead of a wishbone are the kind of people I like to learn and gain wisdom from . God Bless You Mr. Miller and for having some compassion, discipline and desire.

Great and wonderful story, the kind that put goose bumps on your arms!
150 Becky Rountree // Nov 19, 2008 at 9:32 pm

Thank you Cory Miller for putting into words something that many of us feel. It is past time in this country that honest hardworking God fearing people take a stand for what is right! What ever happened to if you don’t work you don’t eat?
151 John // Nov 20, 2008 at 8:30 am

Becky..
To answer your question of “whatever happened to if you don’t work you don’t eat” is
you get more votes when you give people money without having to work for it. You got to love socialism and redistributing the wealth. So keep on working because quite a few Americans are looking for a free ride………

Go Obama 08….. I love a free ride

Change…..what the working class will have left in their pockets when washington is thru with them.
152 Tracie // Nov 21, 2008 at 11:13 am

Wow!! I just read this letter to B.O. I doubt he will even see this. I truly hope that there are MANY more Americans like you, Cory, we need them. Although it’s too late for the election, it’s NOT too late for this great Country. We have to take a stand against these leftist socialists. We DO NOT have to take what they give us. This letter needs to be sent to ALL conservative talk shows, radio and tv. Everyone needs to read this to get a REAL sense of what REAL America is all about. God Bless you, Cory, and your family AND your businesses. This country was built on the blood, sweat, and tears of pioneers who dared to change the way they and ultimately the way WE live. FREE.
153 J. Strupp // Nov 21, 2008 at 1:47 pm

….another “real” America advocate.
154 J. Strupp // Nov 21, 2008 at 1:54 pm

I loved the “God fearing” reference followed by the question, “What ever happened to if you don’t work you don’t eat?”
155 Sean // Nov 22, 2008 at 10:22 am

I can understand how Cory is bitter, but when the average American has more money in his/her pocket, what happens? They spend it – they buy things from food to diapers to luxury items. All these things are provided by businesses. So, while businesses will likely see tax increases, they’ll also see revenues increase. I can’t foresee how B2B companies will be affected, but if the Obama administration is anything like the Clinton administration, I feel all this complaining is futile.

Just think, now you can pay your employees less because they’ll be taxed less.
156 Todd // Nov 22, 2008 at 9:24 pm

Cory;

I have a similar story. I grew up a lower middle class white kid. No help from anyone and my skin color didn’t buy me any favors, because I was obviously “privileged”. I paid for every cent of my education and I have built myself and my own career. I worked any job that I could find from the age of 12 and I was on my own by 16.

I have served in Iraq twice and Kosovo once.

I have never resented the entrepreneur and I am sick of seeing people who don’t know the meaning of work blame the “rich” for all their problems. As I see it we have 12 million mexicans who can find work here but we seem to have a lot of Americans who complain that such work is beneath them.

The one consolation that I have is that the backbone of America, the folks who grow the food, and drill the wells and keep the phones working and the toilets flushing, get it. And it is this group of people who will keep the values of the Constitution and the principles of self-reliance and the American dream alive.

Obama has 4 years to get it right and if he doesn’t we all get the chance to throw him out. Congress has less time. They can only blame Bush for so long for their own incompetence. It is only the ignorance of most Americans regarding the functions of congress and the president that has allowed things to progress this far. When the promises that don’t add up, finally, don’t add up, people will understand that you don’t get something from nothing.

As far as Sean as concerned, Sean, the more you tax me, the less profit I make and the less I have available to invest in equipment and people. I can only raise prices so far to compensate for tax increases so that means that people get laid off. There is no way that running my tax money through a government bureaucracy in order to give it to people who didn’t earn it will result in more income coming to me. Washington is the biggest profit-suck in the country. You wouldn’t give a dime to a charity that had the operating overhead of Washington.

You need a course in basic economics and mathematics.
157 Bookman // Nov 24, 2008 at 10:43 pm

@ Sean

You believe that Mr. Miller is “bitter”, and would rejoice in paying his employees less? More fool you.

If Obama really wants to “share the (undeserved) wealth, he should start by stripping the Hollywood elite and self-styled aristocracy like the Kennedys bare, and shove them all back into the middle class.

If they are worth anything at all, they can quickly rise again – but I doubt it. Ain’t none of them could do it on their own, IMO.

Corey’s success story makes that bunch look sick.
158 Tinkerbell // Nov 25, 2008 at 8:59 am

Kudos to you, Todd & Bookman!
159 J. Strupp // Nov 25, 2008 at 11:31 am

Bookman,

I don’t get it at all. You are being selective in your “rags to riches” praise of Cory becuase you think he’s a better person than someone in the “Hollywood elite”. Plays right into the “real” America nonsense I’ve heard recently.

Are you saying that the Hollywood elite had an easier path to the top than wealthy individuals like Cory? You seem to think that individuals who don’t “work with their hands” are less deserving of praise when they make it to the top. Do the political views and personal values of the “Hollywood elite” make their ascend any less impressive? Seems that you think so.
160 Tinkerbell // Nov 25, 2008 at 2:17 pm

Dear J. Strupp,
I understood Cory to say, and Bookman to appreciate, that Cory was now employing others in the business he created.

I do not see this as the common Hollywood story, rather Hollywood is known for back-biting competitiveness, excessive drug use, and other illegal behaviors. Rather than forging employment opportunities for others, Hollywood is known to be a bit self-absorbed and self-indulgent.

N’cest pas?
161 Jeff // Dec 21, 2008 at 10:14 pm

everyone of course is entitled to their opinon, whether it be cory the well driller, or joe the unemployed and unlicensed (and quite clearly untimely) plumber. it’s a shame though that cory doesn’t have all the facts. i hope you read all of my response as well. first off, cory is from texas, where i’ve come to find that’s where the largest number of ignorant people live…with respect to politics. it’s a republican mecca. a poll was taken just 1 week ago, and it was found that 23% of texans still actually think obama is muslim. all they have to do is go out and visit http://www.barrackobama.com, the non-partisan site http://www.factcheck.org, or any of thousands of other sites that clearly explain that obama is a natural born citizen of the usa, a christian, and actually was raised by his white mom and her parents in hawaii and kansas…not in kenya or indonesia (only spent a brief time there) or wherever people say he was raised and picked up “extremely radical” views. or maybe all the oil people that are making record breaking quarterly profits don’t want to believe he is not muslim…and don’t want others to believe it either, so that they can continue to make money hand over fist at the expense of the “joe the plumbers” and “cory the well drillers”, and everyone else who may be struggling financially, by gauging prices at the pump. for the record though, it is not illegal to run for political office if you are of muslim faith. their are members of congress that are, as well as several city mayors. pretty discriminating to even have this rumor be going around in the first place, as not all muslims wear a turbin and a vail, and run around blowing things up. a lot of muslim-americans are business professionals and very “americanized” people. possibly cory needs to realize the following: – over the past 40 yrs, republicans have held the presidency 70% of the time (28 of 40 yrs), including the last 8 years, and 20 of the past 28 years…the entire time that cory was starting and building his businesses. also during that time, the republicans have held a senate majority or 50/50 split 18 of 28 yrs, and the house majority has been republican most of the time as well. it appears cory may need to find someone else to blame other than obama and “ilk” like him. – if cory is making so little money that he only recently was able to start saving for retirement, then he will most likely be making (after figuring in paying his employees’ salaries and benefits) less than $250K income and his taxes will not go up. if he’s making less than $200K, he will in fact get a tax CUT. if he does make more than $250K, then his taxes will only go up 2.7%. to put this in perspective, if he makes $500,000 he will only be paying an additional $13,500 in taxes each year. certainly not enough to come close to breaking him or forcing him to make cutbacks or layoffs. cory can look at this two ways: if obama’s policies were in effect during the time cory was building his business, he would have obtained a large number of yearly tax breaks before hitting the $250K threshold. so he could basically look at the tax increase as balancing out all of the tax breaks he received to help get his business off and running, that had he not received would have made him struggle or not succeed at all…like he actually did in reality without the tax breaks. OR he can simply look at it as paying back the two bush tax cuts from 01 and 03. the wealthiest people got the largest tax cuts. now that extra money he received he, in a sense, needs to pay back. if the extra money was invested properly in the first place, he still could come out significantly on top, not to mention the obama-proposed tax rate still is slightly lower than the rate during the reagan administration. – cory would be nowhere without the people around him: teachers, nurses, construction workers who build the roads he drives on and the houses he lives in. a big reason as to why education in this country has declined so much is due to the lack of quality teachers. maybe one reason why there are less quality teachers is due to them not making enough money and having to find work in more lucrative fields in order to support their families? mom may have more insight into this, as she was a quality teacher for a long time! – AND to bring it home with one final point that i can tell you first hand is true: it’s not the fault of the democrats that cory was paying outlandish 22-24% rates on his credit cards. he’s quick to blame the “ilk” of democrats, but his rationale is way off. the core fault lies in three places: the states of south dakota, the corruption of the association between lobbyists and certain members of congress, and the total lack of ethics in big business. not to mention, most financial experts point to republican former fed chairman alan greenspan as one of the biggest culprits of the economy’s breakdown, as he continually lowered the fed rate to ridiculously low numbers, in turn setting the economy up for a tailspin. greenspan himself even admitted his actions probably played a significant role. corporations work for shareholders. in order to satisfy the shareholders, a lot of corp executives will go to any length to make as much money as possible to impress shareholders, while at the same time filling their own pockets with resultant bonuses. doesn’t matter to them how right or wrong it is, or how many individuals they ruin or hurt. corporate ethics is taught in every single management and accounting class out there, yet i have yet to see it come to fruition on a large corporate scale. the initial reason for the ridiculous rates cory is paying goes back to 1980 when the state of sd, to improve ailing state economies, allowed banks to set rates at virtually unlimited levels by eliminating the usury rates of the state. delaware soon followed. this is why banks have moved and setup their credit operations in places like sioux falls, sd and wilmington, de even though their company headquarters are not there. this is a loophole that allows them to charge the high rates. the biggest reason for cory’s high rates though, is that the high paid lobbyists that the corps hire to lobby congress and the comptroller of the currency, bribe or heavily influence policians and authorities in the right places to cater the laws so that their clients (the banks) can run wild by taking advantage of consumers. now standard rates are high to begin with (15-20%) because of south dakota, but a consumer knows what he’s getting into in that respect, and if a consumer chooses to put money on credit cards knowing they won’t be able to pay it back for a while, and knowing that they will be paying the 15-20% rate, then that is the consumers decision and their is nothing wrong with it. it’s their decision, and the consumer gets what they want, and the banks profit. both parties are happy. the problem is that the banks have lobbied to have other means of charging even more money to consumers, and not readily letting the consumers know about it. the reasons are complete bs. for example, a consumer could have been making on time, minimum or more payment amounts every month for over 5 years on all credit cards and/or loans they have, but then out of nowhere their rate could get bumped from 15-20% to as much as 30% with no explanation what so ever, and with no warning what so ever. consumers are forced to play the game of calling in over and over, and mailing letter after letter in until someone finally tells them it’s because they have balances on other credit cards or they have other outstanding loans. even if you have never had a single blemish with the company that did this, and even if your overall balances are not really that high to begin with, they can still almost double your rate to suck more money out of you. the previous 5 paragraphs explain why cory the well driller was getting raped with finance charges from his credit cards – this has nothing to do with democrats or their policies; in fact, it actually has much more to due with republicans and their policies of creating exorbitant wealth for big businesses and not regulating their practices enough. the problem isn’t that people are trying to get a free ride by charging up money they don’t have. some people have no choice in order for them and their families to survive in times of harship, and some make a decision or take a risk to put money on credit cards to either enjoy something in the moment rather than let the moment slip by forever, or in cory’s case, he financed a life decision to move forward with a business startup by borrowing money on credit cards. regardless it’s a decision people make, and they know the consequences they will face (uhh, that is the ones they assume they will be facing based on the agreement). no, people charging up money they don’t currently have and can’t pay off at the end of the month is not the problem at all. it is the dirty tricks and unethical conduct of banks that dupe people into higher rates than the 15-20% standard ones consumers are expecting, to the point where most people will never be able to get their debt paid off…and then if they are lucky enough to actually make strides and get all or most of a credit card paid off, banks realize this when they run their reports each day/week, and they set out to suck these people back in by, for example, setting them up with balance transfer offers at 0% rates for 6 months, knowing they have money on other credit cards that they can transfer in, and when they do transfer the money in they immediately jack up the rates to nearly 30%, again without explanation, and again when a consumer doesn’t even have so much as a single late payment blemish anywhere on their credit record in over 5 years. it is all the practices like this that are allowed to go on every day in our coutnry that make me firmly believe we need to move more towards a people-centric government rather than a corporation-centric government, and this is exactly why i voted for barrack obama today!! well to be honest, it actually sounds to me like cory the well driller is the real whiner. he didn’t have to torture himself into heart problems by going through what he went through. he had a choice, and he chose to take the road he did. i personally feel that hard work is very important, but that people should not be forced to literally kill themselves with stress and frustration for 25 years as their only option to succeed in starting a business. getting government breaks, that will be paid back if the business becomes successful anyway, is to me a much more sane approach to get you off the ground. so basically, cory spent the past 25 yrs working his butt off and most likely not spending much time with his family as a result, so that he can possibly die of a heart attack in his mid 50-s? i’m sorry, but that’s not the road i would choose to take if govt assistance is available…especially considering cory put LOTS of money on credit cards (potentially ruining his credit record forever) and borrowed lots of money from family and friends that, if his business failed, he would not have been able to pay back.
162 Leapin // Dec 22, 2008 at 8:27 am

Jeff -

“people-centric government rather than a corporation-centric government”

Yes, we are on the way to being a people-centric government meaning that more and more people want to be dependent the government and the government wants the same thing.

“getting government breaks, that will be paid back if the business becomes successful anyway, is to me a much more sane approach to get you off the ground”

Who pays the government back if the business is not successful? Who will this be limited to? Maybe I and 100 million of my fellow citizens want to start a business. Where does the money come from? Where is the oversight? Maybe I’ll put half of the handout into a “business” and rest I’ll stash away. Are these business allowed to make a profit? How much of a profit? You don’t like that the oil companies made a profit. By the way if there is a big oil conspiracy why have gasoline prices fallen so much?
163 Tinkerbell // Dec 22, 2008 at 8:51 am

Jeff, you are afraid to take risks, then work hard to make them pan out. Do you understand Cory and millions of others like him work hard because in our minds failure is not an option?!

By contrast, you want the government to tie a pillow to your backside before you go skating. You and pillow-butts like you do not exhibit the spirit which made our country great.

Definition of success: getting up one more time than you fall down!
164 Randy in Richmond // Dec 22, 2008 at 3:31 pm

I suspect there really is no ‘Jeff’. This email was written around the time of the election–the Texas Poll was released October 29, 2008. Nothing in the email alludes to Obama having won the election. The purpose of this and other similar emails was to dispel negative input on the internet about Obama. I doubt very seriously that one person wrote it. Notice how the allegation of Obama being Muslim was worked into the email yet Cory never mentioned anything about Muslims. And why did it suddenly show up on a site where the letter originally ran on October, 28th?
165 OPEN Forum by American Express OPEN | Will You Be a Leader? // Feb 25, 2009 at 9:17 am

[...] am signing-off and wish you all the best by paraphrasing a signature tagline by Cory Miller, also known as Core the Well Driller. I am just an ordinary, extraordinary “trader in matter [...]
166 Anthoni the well driller // Aug 27, 2009 at 6:35 pm

Cory,

I couldn’t agree with you more. We were given your letter via my father-in-law, whom received it in a forwarded e-mail. Everything in your letter, about yourself and your work, describes my husband exactly! The only difference being that we don’t live in East Texas. We are having to deal with all of the same hardships (e.g. “entitlement mentalities”). Just wanted to let everyone know that people like you renew my faith in the human race! I feel there still may be some hope left…

Anthoni the well driller
167 Gary Williams // Sep 26, 2009 at 12:31 am

As a Canadian who is married to “old family” Texan, I’m still finding myself in total amazement at some of the stuff conservatives seem proud enough of that they actually say it publicly. Cory’s “LTP” fits into this category of course.
How is that he fails to see the hypocrisy of making all these claims of having succeeded single-handedly while simultaneously regaling us with all the help he recieved from friends and using various (non-governmental) money loans. Perhaps he hasn’t noticed that mankind is a creature that has adopted the “group” approach as the best strategy for ensuring survival against the elements. Unlike solitary beasts like bears, mountain lions and others who only come together to mate, we use intellect and numbers to overcome adversity — a tactic also employed by wolves, primates, etc. Like them, we too have developed complex social rules that were originally designed to keep us from taking whatever we want from others, a behavior still in vogue among the solitary creatures.

What this means is that this social Darwinism and presumed independance I keep hearing from the right is a concept based on ignorance of what is really going on among socialised animals like us. (these claims are often accompanied by “That’s the way it is in nature”, and how their refusal to help others is actually a positive contribution their making by reducing the odds that their useless, unproductive genes are passed on to others).

The truth of the matter is that we are successful precisely BECAUSE we help each other in a relationship known as ‘reciprocal altruism’. Simply stated, it’s the tendency for social animals to risk their own life saving someone they may not even know. How do we gain from such an action? Because there’s now an unspoken reliance all the memberes of a party now have that they’ll do whatever they can to save themselves should they be in mortal danger. This is very useful when pushing the boundaries of what is known, to seek out the greener pasture that may lie on the other side of that high mountain. We are who we are precisely because we developed the emotion or skill called empathy, a tendency to feel sympathetic toward others in distress.

Unfortunately for us, the research ongoing into terrorism and brutality reveals that there are many among us whose having been raised by highly authoritarian, cold, demanding parents has undesirable effects on us all. It leaves many kids unable to socialise at properly at a time of critical importance for their later intellectual and moral develpment. Missing this phase causes them to never fully develop important cognitive skills; among them the ablity to feel for others suffering, regardless of whether the sufferers own actions were responsible for their situation.

Who are these people? RWA-SDOs. Google the term, see the research findings. This way you’ll find it harder to dismiss what is being said here as being a “mere opinion” of yet another of those fascist/socialist/atheist/Marxist/leftist/racist/America hating, tax hiking, patriot killing, terrorist conspiring, Muslim-loving people whose education is proof of exposure to commie-indoctrination! (rather like that other source of info on events in distant places — journalism. This has been /conveniently/ infiltrated as well by liberals whose entire purpose in life is apparently to lie to conservatives about what they’ve seen, desperate to get them to rethink notions they have about the inherent moral superiority of the US ! )

Well, isn’t that just special, humh?
168 Charlie Factor // Aug 20, 2010 at 4:20 pm

Looks like I am last and late to the party and get the last word. I think Cory was telling the socialists of the world, “give your own money to charity, I give more than you already”. Lets face it, what Cory describes is a common story for a possible success in the world, thats why progressives have to steal from others to pretend to save anyone they find is needy. Make your own money and then give it away and I am all for ya!! Please don’t ever come to this American’s home and pretend we are partners right when it’s time to spend any victory money. Take your over educated socialist ideas to any other country sell that to them.

Fairly Conservative

To a sufficient degree; in an evenhanded manner.

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