Mr. Root nails it.
It doesn’t surprise me in the least that libertarians have imaginary dialog in their heads.
If you read the transcript of President Obama’s speech, this is basically what he was trying to say:
Actually it would be a direct comparison if Governor Romney had said in reference to medals won, “you didn’t win that”. Or if President Obama had been speaking to a group getting ready to start their businesses, not the “successful Americans” he directly names, then the comparison would be valid and we wouldn’t be talking about it. As it is neither of these is true and the comparison has no merit.
That’s cute. And interestingly enough, my girlfriend and I had that same discussion right after the girl’s gymnastic team won their group gold.
“But Obama said you didn’t win that, and you have to share with the Russians because they tried really hard you know.” Or something like that came out of her mouth.
But then K. and I are convinced people must tap our conversations because most of what we say eventually ends up out there somewhere. Maybe we just aren’t that clever? I don’t know, but it’s funny the number of times we see someone else coming up with the same arguments almost verbatim.
President Obama’s theme that day wasn’t, “you didn’t build that” (we’re just going to have to agree to disagree about the context of that phrase). Believe it or not, the speech was longer than that, Randy. He was speaking to the false claim that success is achieved without significant help from outside influences (family, government, community, financing, whatever).
Romney was acknowledging the same thing.
Oh, we are going to have to disagree. Poor Obama. Without a speech on a teleprompter he ends up with the most memorable moments, doesn’t he?
Makes no difference to me either way. Just reading what the man said.
Even with a teleprompter, your last president couldn’t even utter a complete sentence. That line of attack is so old and silly. Everything coming from the right is just so trivial.
That’s it. We’ve gone full circle. It’s Bush’s fault that Obama said “you didn’t build that”.
When debate becomes ‘tired, silly, or trivial’ to one side it generally means that side no longer has a reasonable position.
Not sure what the hell you just said because it didn’t apply to what I said at all. Sigh.
Romney: outside factors (rule of law, roads, etc.) help entrepreneurs when they build a business.
Obama: outside factors play just as important of a role in building a business as entrepreneurs do.
Hey Lorax! He was your last president, too.
And seriously? I’ve been to a couple of events where it was just he and a crowd sans press. He’s really a very capable speaker. He simply was never portrayed as capable.
The fact of the matter, Lorax, is that Barack Obama is not as good a public speaker as Bill Clinton. He’s more like Reagan in that he’s great at prepared speeches but prone to gaffes in impromptu contexts. It’s happened many times with Obama (the “57 states,” “Austrian” language, “bitter,” and “you didn’t build that” being just a few).
Maybe that’s true. Or maybe there’s just way more news media covering every event and reporting on this stuff. In the end, it doesn’t really matter because there is a difference between a gaffe and a brain fart. A lot of these “scandals” are manufactured whereas Bush just said some flat out stupid things. Obama has too, but they’re not all gaffes.
And maybe there would be more credibility to Romney’s attacks on Obama with “You didn’t build it” if every single one of his ads didn’t features businesses who had government loans and subsidies. The point is that Republicans like to pretend that government doesn’t do anything for anyone, when really it would be pretty hard to run a business without government. Did he say it in a way that has been easily taken out of context? Yep. Could he have said it better? Yep. Is the underlying theme of his speech and point still highly topical and a great argument against Republican Randism? You’re damn right it is.
President Harry Truman is now considered very popular despite his moments of anger when his daughter was riduculed and he called a reporter an s.o.b. and then confirmed it in a press conference. but he was downright honest about his opinions. the use of profanity in congress is well documented so do not get over excited about the words and language used by any candidate from any political party. of course it is wrong but as they say actions speak louder than words. in the long run it is more important that the candidate be competent and have the courage of his/her convictions.
Dick, you summarize with a word that so seperates all 4 of the major candidates that if it were the only collective measurement we could apply, the election would be a runaway landslide.
Government is necessary to be an arbiter of disputes. However, the issue I have is that we have come to the point where people and business have become dependent upon “transfer payments” (i.e. theft) .
As should be obvious to anyone paying attention, there is no love lost between me and the GOP. Both the GOP and Democratic party are statist organizations who believe that government exists to control people. It’s just a matter of what they want to control. The GOP wants to control your personal life. The Democrats want everyone dependent upon government for their economic well-being. Both are insidious, and both are leading us down a path toward totalitarianism. There’s a reason “open-minded” “secular” “liberals” are the spiritual soul-mates and defenders of radical Islamists. They have the same goals. That also explains why the GOP is in bed with the fundamentalist Christians. At the end of the day, as Robert Heinlein once wrote, labels such as “liberal” and “conservative” are meaningless. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
+1 for Heinlein quote.
Thank God I don’t live in your world.
Gracious. I may be more libertarian than I have admitted in the past.
+1 on the Heinlein quote.
What a stupid quote. I assume KPOM didn’t use quotation marks as he did a small amount of editing–which is fine by me. Here it is in full:
“Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”
― Robert A. Heinlein
It just ain’t this simple.
As the name at the top of this page we are all writing in attests, there are many and varying degrees to all of us.
As presented by KPOM, labels such as liberal and conservative are “meaningless”. Yet his last sentence politically divides us all into what? Two labled catagories.
I’m a conservative.
Randy, keep missing the point! It’s fun to watch!
Yea, Lorax, one of these days I may become as brilliant as you. Hopefully others will put up with me until I do, if ever.
Randy, I’ll be waiting.
ION – I’m going to call it now: Claire McCaskill will retain her seat in the senate. Todd Akin just shot himself in the foot several times. Thanks extremist misogynist Republican men!
It’s really hard to now see how Republicans can get to 50 or even 51 in the Senate. They’ll also lose ground in the house. Randy, I’ll pay $100 for a video showing your face upon news that Nancy gets her gavel back. It’s gonna be pure gold!!
Oh he did. In horrible, painful ways, he did. That was the hardest thing I’ve had to watch in weeks.
But you are nuts if you think Pelosi is getting her place back in the House.
A man can dream!
Akin’s a perfect example of what’s wrong with the GOP. Not only is it a stupid, uneducated remark, but it’s also insensitive. A reasonable opponent would win in a cakewalk, and even the idiot Akin was ahead by a few points until yesterday.
@The Lorax, it’s unlikely the Democrats will win back the House, at least not in 2012. by virtue of redistricting. Expect 2 more years of what we have right now. 2014 will be interesting.
We probably won’t see a true re-alignment in politics until the evangelicals come to the realization that they belong in the Democratic party. Christianity is incompatible with capitalism. Until “conservatives” recognize this, they will continue living in self-contradiction.
The “far left” secular humanists and “far right” evangelicals should pretty much split off and form their own party together. They have much in common (including support for protectionism, big government, and nannyism). Secular humanism is just Christianity minus Christ.
KPOM – Yep. I’m grossly humiliated.
I guess once again we should be grateful to live in such interesting times.
Using KPOM’s opening sentence I do know I can make it read
” Biden’s a perfect example of what’s wrong with the Democrats. Not only is it a stupid, uneducated remark, but it’s also insensitive “–
as it relates to Biden’s recent ‘chains’ remarks.
Akin is a candidate answering a question posed by a newsperson and that other guy’s our sitting Vice President who made his remarks in a prepared speech. Of course Biden metaphorically lost his feet long ago.
Don’t be surprised if Akin resigns and the Republicans choose another candidate.
Don’t be surprised if it’s actually too late for that to happen.
What I’ve read says it’s too late for the party to replace him but if he resigns it’s a different deal. I also think nobody is really sure–yet.
They may also invoke a Torricelli.
Akin has until tomorrow at 5pm to withdraw from the race without a court order. Scott Brown was the first to call for him to drop out. John Cornyn also said the same, using somewhat more diplomatic words.
As for Randy’s rather weak Biden analogy, the difference is that Akin’s party is closely associated with being anti-abortion, and also has well-known struggles in attracting women voters. Biden was making an analogy to the phrase “unchain the banks” and made a clumsy off-the-cuff remark that if you are in the mood to find something offensive might come across the wrong way. He can plausibly explain it as “the words came out the wrong way.” Akin can’t. I can at least surmise the point Biden was trying to make. I have no idea what Akin was attempting to say.
Well that would be inconsistent with the fundraising requests he’s making via Twitter. I guess time will tell.
As always, the Recess Supervisor makes the point I’d make if I wasn’t so lazy right now.
I still think he’s gone. As you say, time will tell.
Akin’s staying in. The Democrats spent $1.5 million to get him nominated, and my guess is that they’ll bankroll him the rest of the way.
He’s running adverts to apologize. Tick tock!
I did the little I could do in this email to Akin.
Actually there was no correct issue to choose, that being your stupidity. No, not what you said in the interview but your decision to remain in the Senate race. Already, here in Virginia, your comments are being used to color the entire Republican Party. They will continue to be echoed throughout campaigns all across America as long as you remain in the race. Do something for your country and we conservatives everywhere–resign with dignity-now.
Most of these idiots stem from the Teaparty movement. The idea that a guy like Akin might be a member of Congress is pathetic. As soon as these folks are challenged, they’re exposed as religious idealogues who know very little about anything. The media needs to do a better job of pressing these people on the issues. Congress is a mess but there’s no need to make it worse.
J. Strupp. That’s not true. First, Akin is no Tea Party candidate. First, there isn’t a real Tea Party. Next, even Tea Party Express is asking him to step down.
Akin is a lousy candidate. On that we can agree.
to me it is illogical to have special interest issues like abortion, guns and gun conrol, contraceptives, religion and a host of others drive the campaign trail. the reality is that regardless of the candidates’ stance on special interest issues he/she has not been proven competent on foreign affairs, trade, crime, immigration and the defense of our country from outside invasion. no candidate has addressed those issues. ask them how to stop or regulate rising crime, how to have a reasonable immigration program and still protect our best interests or what is our national defense plan in case of another Pearl Harbor. I submit they have NONE.
I don’t think Minnesota State Rep. Kerry Gauthier has ties to the Tea Party.
Do you really think the Teaparty movement has nothing to do with ding bats like Akin being elected? They made anti-intellectualism cool. I wonder how many times Akin made this type of statement about rape in front of a more loyal audience. My guess is that this wasn’t the first time he made stupid accusations like this.
Randy, so what you’re saying is that I should avoid public restrooms in Minnesota at all costs? I agree with that.
You said “most of these idiots stem from the teaparty movement”. I’m just pointing out another elected idiot not from the teaparty.
And here we go with the elitism again. If you don’t agree with the left it has to be because you are stupid. I live in a state where teaparty types control the legislature and statehouse. We just had our 3rd straight year with a budget surplus.
J. Strupp, I don’t tell you this very often, but you are sounding goofy.
“If you don’t agree with the left it has to be because you are stupid.”
I didn’t say that. There are plenty of conservatives who I consider reasonable and intelligent. “The left” is a creation in your own head Randy as if we’re all the same.
“They made anti-intellectualism cool.”
Code for they’re stupid, not educated, not too bright, etc.
c’mon folks, who in this country has the best plan for war and peace, immigration and crime. by not responding y’all are in a fantasy of Utopia if your dreams come true.
@Dick, is “neither major candidate” an option?
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