The VP Debate

I realize many follow these events on Twitter but if you have a comment before, after, or during tonight’s debate this is the place.

I believe they will pretty much end up in a draw but the media will give it to Biden. Fortunately the days of the MSM dictating winners and losers from these kinds of affairs has been greatly diminished by the advent of all the social medias.

We’ll see.


  1. My understanding is that the VP debate is just Biden, Ryan, and moderator Martha Raddatz. Tuesday’s presidential debate is in a town hall format, but this one is just Raddatz asking the candidates questions about both domestic and foreign policy issues.

  2. Randy in Richmond says:

    I stand corrected, Ryan. I deleted the incorrect info.

  3. Randy in Richmond says:

    My God, Biden is acting like a clown. Keep it up Joe.
    Is that condescending smile painted on his face?

  4. BrkfldDad says:

    I get the feeling Biden is going to come unhinged. How unprofessional.

    Impressed with how Martha Raddatz is running it.

  5. An itty bitty part of me is feeling sorry for Biden. His theatrics are making me feel uncomfortable. His manic smiling is off-putting.

    On another note, Eddie Munster is trending on Twitter.

  6. BrkfldDad says:

    Oh that Scranton line was a dagger.

  7. Randy in Richmond says:

    Biden told a bold faced lie-he said Romney spoke before we knew the 3 Americans and Ambassador had been killed. Here is early paragraph from Romney’s statement

    Four diplomats lost their life, including the U.S. ambassador, J. Christopher Stevens, in the attack on our embassy at Benghazi, Libya. And of course with these words I extend my condolences to the grieving loved ones who have left behind, as a result of these who have lost their lives in the service of our nation.

  8. Randy in Richmond says:

    Much of followup conversation will be about Biden’s god awful smiling.

  9. Why is Biden arguing with The Count?

  10. Randy in Richmond says:

    Is this Ryan on The View?

  11. Randy in Richmond says:

    Joe is now being Joe.

  12. Randy in Richmond says:

    Biden: Syria is a different country than Libya.

  13. Randy in Richmond says:

    Raddatz is awful.

  14. Biden won. Next topic.

  15. By next week, all anyone will remember about this debate was that Joe Biden was a complete dick. Both Ryan and Biden made points. Biden might have made more because he interrupted Ryan at least 80 times. But on the content, it was pretty even. On the optics, it was a thoughtful man vs. a pompous bully. Most Americans don’t want pompous bullies running the country.

  16. I admitted Romney won the last one, whether or not I liked it. And despite the fact that I thought he was lying, interrupted the president early and often, etc etc.

    Why can’t you just buck up and admit it? Biden won.

  17. I didn’t say anything about who won. 2 phone polls showed Ryan won (one by a lot and one by a few points). 1 online poll showed Biden won decisively.

    But the bottom line is that I didn’t make any statement about who won. What I said was that “By next week, all anyone will remember about this debate was that Joe Biden was a complete dick.”

    The reason I said that is because it is true.

  18. Perhaps The Lorax will man up and admit he’s a partisan hack with nothing of substance to add.

    If the contest tonight was to see who could be the most arrogant jackass, Biden won hands down. The Lorax would have come in second.

  19. “But on the content, it was pretty even.”

    I just read the transcript. You’ve lost your mind.

  20. “Perhaps The Lorax will man up and admit he’s a partisan hack with nothing of substance to add.”

    Name me one time you provided any substance to this combox, Robert? Maybe I missed it?

  21. For starters, Josh, pointing out your complete economic ignorance.

  22. You personally? When? Show me.

  23. Do your own work and think hard. The real world…any customers you’ve ticked off lately? I know salespeople are born liars and lazy by rule, but come on.

  24. “For starters, Josh, pointing out your complete economic ignorance.”

    That was your statement. The burden of proof is on you. When have you:

    1. Provided any substance to FC?

    2. Personally provided substantive proof of my economic ignorance?

  25. CNBC decidedly Ryan; CNN Ryan but within margin of error; CBS decidedly Biden.

    Will be interesting to see a poll of undecided likely to vote. Biden did nothing more than excite the base.

    He surely diminished the Romney ‘liar’ edge by lying about Libya, his vote on the two wars and the birth control/Church lawsuit issues.

  26. The CBS poll that said Biden won was an online poll. I believe the ones that said Romney won were phone polls.

    AP also had Ryan winning in their poll.

    But the bottom line is this: If Americans want leaders who act like adults running the country, Biden’s performance was disqualifying.

  27. “Will be interesting to see a poll of undecided likely to vote. Biden did nothing more than excite the base.”

    Probably true. Can’t imagine a VP debate making a big impact.

  28. “By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’ It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy. I was there, I voted against them. I said, no, we can’t afford that.” -Joe Biden

    Oops, turns out Biden voted for the war in Afghanistan in 2001 and also voted for the war in Iraq in 2002. A flat out lie on both counts.

    Lorax… Struppy… wanna take a shot at spinning this one?

  29. Robert:

    This is a link to one comment about Nate Silver. Nothing about economics. Cindy follows Nate Silver too:

    I’m pretty sure Ryan keeps track of him as well.

    So, again, when have you:

    1. Provided any substance to FC?

    2. Personally provided substantive proof of my economic ignorance?

  30. “Lorax… Struppy… wanna take a shot at spinning this one?”

    No spin. He voted for both wars. It’s a lie.

  31. Ryan, you’re right, CBS is an unscientific online poll.

    Bottom line, if Obama wanted Biden to turn the tide he didn’t. He might have stopped the bleeding, but only for the base. He gave the right more fodder, the independent response is what I’m waiting for.

    At least Big Bird wasn’t mentioned 🙂

  32. Randy in Richmond says:

    I agree with Ryan. People’s memory of this debate will mostly be Biden’s condescending smile, smirk, and interupting. Anyone wanta bet on what SNL will highlite on this event?

    Strupp, you say you read the transcript to make a point. I suspect in today’s multi-media world very few will read the transcript but most will view in some manner Biden’s clown-like smile and rude demeanor. My first comment at 8:23 was about Biden’s behavior and politicos on both sides are still commenting on it. I can see some very good ads for Romney coming from this. I would take Biden’s

    “I never say anything I don’t mean”

    and totally run with it.

    I liken it to a speech Mayor Rudy Giuliani made years ago when all anyone commented on at the time was the behavior of his young son in the background, not the content of the words. See if this 1 second video looks familiar.

  33. Well gosh you all had fun without me! I was over being rude at No Runny Eggs. It’s my happy place. They let me use bad words there.

    1) Lorax is a kid with some strong opinions. Ok. Technically he’s not a kid anymore, but Robert? Guess what. I’ve known Lorax for ten years or so and I have no idea who you are. If you get personal, there’s a really good chance I’ll side with Lorax.

    Besides, he’s the Liberal I’d Most Like to Convert. Won’t be giving up on that any time soon.

    2) Biden’s laughing was so very odd. I can not decide if he was arrogant or nervous or bluffing or what. But dang. It was odd. I don’t know that the rest of the nation will pin any more than that to the display.

    3) Ryan was fine, but he wasn’t great. But then he had the strangest debate opponent so I can’t fault him for being off kilter a bit.

    I think I’ve mentioned before that I’ve judged high school debate before. If someone came to the podium with Biden’s demeanor I’d stop the conversation and throw his ass out. I can’t help but think that Ryan was dealing with a lot of “what the heck?” going on in the back of his mind.

    Unless – well unless Ryan knew of this flaw in Biden’s character. And honestly if that’s his true character we really need to know it now.

    4) Thanks to Randy for great work last night. I love this blog. I think we do a good job here.

    I’ll be working up something with the unemployment numbers released yesterday. It’s BrkfldDad’s fault! Let’s hope the research comes together like I want. Sometimes things I think will be easy turn out to be a reason to bang my head against a brick wall. I’m really not at all interested in that today.

    That’s a way of couching that if it gets hard, you might not be hearing from me today…

  34. At the end of the day Paul Ryan held his own, and Joe Biden was an ass.

  35. What I learned from the debate:
    1.The administration didn’t know that the Libyan embassy had requested more security. Really?
    2.We don’t have to worry about Iran getting nuclear weapons. Well that’s a relief!
    3.Only people making over $1 million a year will get a tax hike under the Obama administration. Wow, I thought it was a lot lower than that, like $200k or $250K. Again, looks like I don’t have anything to worry about here!
    4.Catholic institutions, particularly hospitals, won’t have to provide insurance coverage for contraception. Really? Well then what is that silly lawsuit all about?

    I agree with everyone who said that Joe’s smirking and laughing was offputting and inappropriate. It really made me want to reach into the TV and strangle him. Ryan was good but not great.

  36. Randy in Richmond says:

    Well said Tara.

    I also learned:

    Biden gave high praise to our intelligence community with the work they are doing in Iran. They are going to advise us well in advance of Iran having the bomb. As you said, no worry in Iran.

    But alas, that same intelligence community totally screwed up in Libya. They weren’t aware to be more vigilant on 9/11/12 and they blamed it all on a YouTube video.

    “These kinds of issues are handled in the State Department by security officials,” White House spokesman Jay Carney said during Friday’s (sic today’s) press briefing.

    Or in other words, the balls in your court Hillary. Be careful though, it’s crowded under that bus.

    Who’s on first ?

  37. BrkfldDad says:
  38. “Biden told a bold faced lie-he said Romney spoke before we knew the 3 Americans and Ambassador had been killed.” – BDad

    That’s malarkey.

    Biden’s remark:

    “Governor Romney, before he knew the facts, before he even knew that our ambassador was killed, he was out making a political statement which was panned by the media around the world.”

    Fox News confirms:

    “In a statement Tuesday night, Romney said he was outraged by the attacks and the death of the American consulate worker. He added: “It’s disgraceful that the Obama administration’s first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.”

    At this point in time it seems quite clear that not only was Romney unaware of the Ambassador’s death, so was the White House.

  39. BrkfldDad says:

    Milton – you are losing it, I never said that.

  40. BDad, my apologies.

    It was Randy who made the erroneous claim.

  41. Randy in Richmond says:

    No, it’s not malarkey. Not erroneous. Biden says:

    “Romney, before he knew the facts, before he even knew that our ambassador was killed, he was out making a political statement …”

    Romney was not “out making” any such statement. On Tuesday, Sept. 11th at 10:09 pm the Romney Campaign released an ’embargoed until midnight tonight’ statement that is the one to which you refer. The embargo was released at 10:25 pm. But Romney was not “out making” a statement. I interpreted Biden’s statement, in the real time of the debate, to refer to when Romney actually “was out making” a statement on the morning of September 12th. I quote from and link that statement.

    I understand the confusion as I took Biden’s statement literally–something neither I nor anyone should do. So if you have him referring to the released statement, not the “out making a” which are the words he actually spoke, then he is correct.

    But malarkey, no.

  42. Cindy, I viewed the debate through the same lens. I think what was at work here was some very strong coaching for Biden. The laughing and smirking was a way for him to be incredulous without looking like a complete jerk. It also was a strategy to make Ryan feel uncomfortable. It worked.

    Debates are as much about substance, as they are about style. But they are also about games–you know this having judged HS Debate. In HS Debate we enforce very strict ethical standards for conduct because of the nature of the pedagogical environment. Biden had no such restraints and it is my personal opinion that he was coached to show his smile and to also interrupt Ryan–it made him look way more involved and passionate.

    These people who keep complaining that Biden was a meanie are to be ignored. No one tunes into a debate expecting the snoozer we had with Romney and Obama. We want some dust up. And Biden delivered. Conservatives wouldn’t be upset if it was Ryan being “rude” but ultimately winning.

  43. Let’s transpose the VP Debate on the first Presidential Debate; Joe Biden did what Mitt Romney was doing in Presidential Debate #1, only better. Democrats win! Having said that, all of these debates are so incredibly irrelevent. Really?! Whose minds are converted by these debates?

  44. I agree with your assessment Lorax, that I would have tossed Biden from a HS debate, but he unnerved Ryan enough to be effective.

    Bigger game, different rules.