Joe being Joe

Did Joe Biden misspeak when he said he was in North Carolina and was actually in Virginia?

Absolutely.

Did Joe Biden misspeak when he asked a state senator in a wheelchair to stand up and be recognized?

Absolutely.

Did Joe Biden misspeak when he commented on a new tunnel for cars that had been needed for some time–about a new tunnel for trains?

Absolutely.

Did Joe Biden misspeak during the debate when he said of the “two wars”, Afghanistan and Iraq,

“I was there, I voted against them, I said, no, we can’t afford that.”

Absolutely not. He flat out lied. Do you believe a senator, any senator, would not know how they voted on 2 major issues concerning sending our troops to war?

In case you have any doubts.

It’s one thing to debate policies that are political or use statistics such as in economics, the enviroment, energy, education, trade, etc. , to make a point one way or another, but a bare faced lie distorting one’s personal vote(s) on sending Americans to war is disgraceful.

Comments

  1. What does he care? No one that matters, at least, by the standards (ha!) of the left will hold him accountable. They never have. Kind of like how dear leader doesn’t get challenged.

  2. Yes, Randy, thanks for calling attention to this one and thanks for presenting it exactly as you did.

    Ok, I’m going out on a bit of a limb and saying that most of our elected folks (pick a side) are whacked out nut jobs. The thing with catching Biden in this lie is, well, 10 to 1 HE BELIEVES HIMSELF.

    What we really need to do is elect people who are not whacked out nut jobs. But to do that we are going to have to pull back some on the asinine hate that takes place when we talk politics. Because frankly, the way we do it now, only the whacked out nut jobs have the inappropriately trained cognitive dissidence skills to survive the job.

    I hope that made sense. But I believe it with my whole heart. I was elected for a while. While I would love to serve again, and I was darn good at the jack-of-all-trades variety needed to do the job, I simply won’t ever, ever try. It hurts to have someone catch you picking your nose or pulling your underwear out of a wedgie and then have them use that over and over again as proof you suck.

    BTW, the advert up right now in Wisconsin against Tammy Baldwin where she’s looped into saying, “You’re damn right” over and over again? Stupid. I hope it works for her instead of against her.

    But then, like I said, I’m tired of this meanness. Baldwin is the single most liberal member of the U.S. Congress. Use that. Use the statement with “damn right” once. But I think the technique tried in that ad is a big miss and only fans the flames for those who would be voting against her anyway.

  3. The Lorax says:

    I thought he was saying he voted against the Bush tax cuts?

  4. Here’s the transcript. Here’s what Biden said:

    And by the way, they talk about this Great Recession if it fell out of the sky, like, oh my goodness, where did it come from? It came from this man voting to put two wars in a credit card, to at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion- dollar tax cut for a — very wealthy. I was there. I voted against him. I said, no, we can’t afford that. And now all of a sudden these guys are so seized with a concern about the debt that they created —

    Biden was pointing a finger at Ryan and saying Ryan

    1) voted for the war
    2) voted for a prescription drug benefit, and
    3) voted for a tax cut.

    Then Biden says, “I was there. I voted against him. I said, no, we can’t afford that.”

    “That” would be all three items, right? Did Biden also vote for the drug benefit?

    Biden’s intention might have been to isolate the tax cut from the other two issues, but if it was, why did he screw that part up so badly, especially in light of the fact that Biden “won” the debate?

  5. Randy in Richmond says:

    Cindy
    As soon as I read your comment, flags went up. Your quote does not match mine. Well, not your quote, but NPR’s quote. I linked NPR and it sure enough says “I voted against “him”. – not them.

    I wondered how I could make such a huge mistake as that affects my main point. So I went to the Washington Post transcript as well as the Politico transcript. Each of these left leaning establishments printed “I voted against them-not him. ” I then watched/listened to a tape of the debate–Biden said ‘them’.

    Whew…

    NPR shows it’s true colors –again.

  6. Consider Cindy’s comment (#2) to be my Sunday thoughts this week. Well said.

    Not that it will change anything…

  7. There was no question in my mind Biden was lying. Look at the company he keeps.

  8. “Look at the company he keeps.”

    Politicians?

  9. The Lorax says:

    I heard Biden say “’em”. As in it could be them or him.

  10. The Lorax says:
  11. Randy in Richmond says:

    Lorax
    I’ll go with Slate–they link the Washington Post which says “them”. Or I could go with HuffPo whose transcript says “them”. Or my own ears –them. 🙂

  12. The idea that any being can logically interpret what comes from Joe Biden’s brain and exits via his lips is vastly amusing to me.

  13. The Lorax says:

    RL – Funny, I always thought the same about you.

  14. Lorax, go to your corner.

    Randy, thanks for the other transcript links. Doesn’t surprise me in the least.

    Them sounds like the winner. Glad that’s settled.

  15. Why is the linked video a big deal? When he said “or Kenya” there was a huge smile on his face. It was obviously a joke. It would be as if some dem said “lets said Romney back to Boston… or Wall Street”. A cheap shot? Sure. But not a huge deal.

  16. Dear Lorax,

    Cindy said it best.

    “But to do that we are going to have to pull back some on the asinine hate that takes place when we talk politics.”

    I thought better of you than snarky personal attacks.

    My bad on that assumption.

  17. Earth to RL: Those were your words!

    No, Ryan. That’s not what it’s like. But you are part of the majority of Americans who can’t recognize racist rhetoric when they see it.

    I know you will all pile on, and call me names, and Randy will ask me for a link to proof, and everyone will try to convince themselves that questioning the national origin of the President of the United States and saying he was born in Africa and isn’t a Real True Red-Blooded American is anything but treasonous racism.

    Spare me, please.

  18. Biden could pull Jerry Sandusky on stage and The Lorax would say he still won.

  19. Hey Lorax– you don’t get it. I’ve never been accused of fibbing or distorting my voting record, as this discussion is about Biden doing so. And then you widen the circle to make an accusation of treason?

    Sheesh. You really don’t get it.

  20. Racism like, they want to put y’all back in chains? Oh no wait that doesn’t count because it was said by sitting Democratic VP.

    Treasonous racism? I’ll call that the bullshit it is.

  21. Oops, just saw this was Randy’s post, so it was Randy who I quoted above. But, I do like it that Cindy is monitoring the playground. 🙂

  22. Here I thought I was going to hear Joe say “him” “em” or “them” and instead it was some dude talking about sending Obama back to Chicago….or Kenya…Odd…

  23. Classic tactic when you are losing an argument on the facts, divert attention to a different topic.

  24. It was Jason Thompson? What a dodo…

  25. Biden was lying in this case. It’s that simple. There isn’t anything to interpret here IMO. It’s a shame that he tarnished a successful debate with this statement.

  26. BrkfldDad, I can tell you don’t like me. And I don’t care. Nevertheless… First to your accusation that I was trying to divert attention, I posted that link because it was breaking (brand new when i posted it) and I thought debate here had died down and it was the most recent post. Classic that you see treachery where there is none.

    Next, saying that “want to put y’all back in chains” is not racism. That’s accusing someone of racism. Wanting to put y’all back in chains IS racism. Conservatives LOVE to often claim that referring to race in any way is racism. It isn’t. Being racist is racism. To those who don’t know, racism is the idea that humans are divided into separate groups called “races” (which is biologically untrue and science rejects categorizations of race). A racist is a person who is prejudiced against someone because they believe it. Facts matter, remember?

    BrkfldDad, please study it out – and read up on what racism means. What about Biden’s statement suggests he is prejudiced against someone based on their race? Because saying someone should “go back to Kenya” is very clearly demonstrable racist rhetoric. But I’m sure there’s no reasoning with you. I’m sure you have a black friend, and you might even like him!

  27. Sandusky? Not a chance. J. Strupp hits the mark. Sure, fine, he lied. Shall we tally lies?

  28. guys calm down, we can get through this everybody noes that there isn’t one way out but many ok guys? I think Walker and MItt are going to be doing a speech this weekend, any1 want to meet up and cheer our boys on? Gooby pls?

  29. BrkfldDad says:

    Lorax, I’ve have no problem with you. I have a problem with the argument. But, you’ve done a very good job of showing intolerance with the broad, albeit one-sided brush you use. Your argument points do a very nice job of pointing out exactly why your accusation holds no weight.

    You know nothing about those you accuse, including me. If you knew my personal heritage, family and work with those of color you’d be pretty ashamed of your comments. But now you’ve chosen to make it personal and frankly I won’t.

  30. BrkfldDad says:

    p.s. I find his son’s comment disturbing and out of line. He should not have repeated what was clearly spoken to him. But is he or the comment racist, only as racist as Biden and his comment.

  31. Randy in Richmond says:

    I would suggest that, “want to put y’all back in chains”, as spoken by Biden, is inciting racism. He is accusing Governor Romney and Rep. Ryan of metaphorically doing something with absolutely no proof whatsoever. The charge in his statement is, here we go again, a total lie.
    I’ve addressed this before on this site. In August I entered this:

    Governor Romney has said he wants to reduce regulations and eliminate some government programs in his first 100 days but I challange anyone to produce proof that he said he “wants Wall Street to write it’s own rules” which is Biden’s charge.

    I’ve had no takers to my request.

  32. RL – someone has to keep an eye on this crowd. A few insist on playing hard-core dodgeball right now.

    Randy and Ryan (if you are on this thread), we need to come up with a better way for folks to know who wrote what. I guess our names at the top don’t work completely well.

    Bdad – you rock. (Sorry. I know. It’s just that I’ve kind of run out of other ways to tell you how much I appreciate your participation here.)

    J. Strupp – Yes. Thanks. It’s nice to know you are still in there somewhere. We’ve always prided ourselves and calling it for what it is, you and I.

    Lorax – tossing in the little man Thompson quote was a tactic. Yes, it was breaking news, but you are a skilled debater. Don’t do shit like that and then flash your cutest “who me” look when you get caught. If you’d really wanted to use it as a new subject for discussion, you would have introduced it better.

    You guys just made my morning. Thank you so much for reading, and thanks to Randy for sticking to the posting. I still really like what we do here.

    Now I have to go pretend I like exercising as much as fighting with you all.

  33. B-Dad – I appreciate your candor, and I bet you are a wonderful person (no sarcasm) but you’ve used language that illustrates this blind spot I spoke of previously. Your “work with those of color” is probably, in my opinion, either your actual business relationship, or it could be your charity. Of course, none of that proves that you may be prejudiced. But your comment does sound kind of patronizing, infantilizing, and patriarchal to me. Yes, I know those are big words and some of the regulars here will try to attack me for it.

    We have a fundamental misunderstanding about what racism is and entails in this country. Randy, Biden would be “inciting racism” if he was saying it was a GOOD thing that some want blacks back in chains. But by accusing someone of being racist and then criticizing them – that doesn’t incite racism. That merely points it out and shames it.

    Conservatives will often believe that just by simply referring to someone by their race, one is being racist. That’s opposed to actual racist ideation and conception of the world.

    True, Thompson the Younger isn’t running for congress – but everyone in the room thought it was really funny, and a woman even cracked a joke about raising funds for poor Barack to sail back to the Cape of Good Hope. Sound familiar? Yep. More patriarchal, patronizing, infantilizing discourse. Thompson Jr., the off-camera racist, et al. are all responsible for a party that has tacitly embraced racism. That’s what happens when your party relies almost entirely on the Southern states for its base.

    Cindy – No tactic, I was just being lazy, quite frankly. It’s that simple.

    That said, I find this conversation we now find ourselves in far more interesting and valuable then going over the high and low notes of Joe Biden’s facial expressions…

    I regret nothing.

    (http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/342/129969639840.gif)

  34. Here’s what pisses me off about talking of race with liberals:

    If I say I work with people of color I’m called racist. Patronizing. Really not comfortable with those who are different than me and so that’s why I mention it.

    When a liberal says they work with people of color, it’s because they are a god walking on earth who should be revered, and I am lucky to be breathing the same air.

    Screw (not my original word choice) that double standard Lorax. You are so much better than that.

  35. BrkfldDad says:

    Wow Lorax, you really stepped deep into it personally with me on that one. Language has nothing to do with it, except in your interpretation. And as I noted, you know nothing about me personally (or now professionally, as you saw fit to bring that into the mix), and to have assumed as you have was and is very dangerous and juvenile. So politically correct, and yet you use the ‘black friend’ comment. One-way street and broad brush with you, I see.

  36. BrkfldDad says:

    Well Cindy, thank God you didn’t say ‘black’, you would have been chastised for that as well. I think my wonderful late paternal grandmother is rolling over in her grave, and hint hint hint to one particular individual, she’s was neither conservative nor Caucasian.

  37. I’m not saying the comment was good or even really defendable. Not now that Thompson, the campaign, and the RNC have apologized, the story is over.

    Also, it would be interesting if the left applied the same standard to “class-ist” statements that it does to racist statements.

    “Dividing people up into little groups is so wrong and evil…. only narrow-minded people would attempt such a thing. Oh, and the wealthy are bastards. Soak the rich.
    Love always, The Democratic Party”

  38. Before all this got so personal with T.Lorax, I wondered how anyone could assume that any of us in the commentary zone were not of ‘color’. Or had familial ties, or adopted children, or dearly loved ones of the ‘non-caucasian’ persuasion. I have never, ever thought of the forum here as once race. Makes me wonder why you do, Lorax.

  39. J. Strupp says:

    I sure would LOVE to know the conservative definition of “soak the rich”. On of these days, you conservatives will have to let me in on the details. 🙂

  40. BrkfldDad says:

    It’s a pretty well defined, at least as I remember, phrase. Started with the revenue act of 1935 that taxed those who made $5MM and above at 75%. But, my recollection may be wrong, I’ll let Ryan answer 🙂

  41. DICK STEINBERG says:

    Reality check. Yes there is bigotry. Yes we do have the right to discuss it. Yes we tolerate those who are inconsiderate of those who are different. Yes there are those who are undesirable in every race, religion and creed. Yes the less fortunate are human beings and deserve to be treated as such. Yes the great American patriot, Abraham Lincoln struggled with the political spectrum regarding slavery. Yes Nazi Germany did kill Jews as inferior people. No it is not the American way to use bigotry as a means to an end. God bless.

  42. J. Strupp says:

    So a 75% tax rate on people making over $5 mil. Got it.

    Their effective tax rates are less than half that now so we have some work to do I guess.

  43. J. Strupp. Put a history book under your pillow and see if osmosis works after all.

    You were just owned.

  44. J. Strupp says:

    Good lord. Something relevant to today guys.

    This is why we play around with stuff like the Revenue Act of 1935. Because top earners haven’t had it this good in over 80 years and conservatives have no way of justifying these effective tax rates other than talking about trickle down foo foo dust and pre-WWII Revenue Acts.

  45. Not to be morbid, but the only thing that took us past crummy legislation like the Revenue Act of 1935 and into eventual prosperity was a world war.

    Odds, anyone?

  46. BrkfldDad says:

    Oh good Lord Strupp, how irrelevant is that. Did you bother to research the evolution of soak the rich? Your comment is equivalent to saying we shouldn’t talk about Republicans because that’s the name they chose in 1856.

  47. Josh Strupp is the same economic illiterate who has said repeatedly that regulations are free.

    Then again, as a salesman, he is paid to lie and distort the truth.

  48. Cindy – I used to think that, all an economy needs is a good war. Heck, WH Brady Co here in town can thank its existence to war and the need to train unskilled, primarily female, members of society to assemble electrical components. Afghanistan and Iraq changed my mind on that though. Precision, technical wars don’t need the mechanical infrastructure past wars required. Building that infrastructure is what drove those economies.

  49. “The election here in November will chart our course as a country not only for our generation, but our kids’ generation. We have the opportunity to send President Obama back to Chicago,” Jason Thompson said, before smiling and adding: “Or Kenya.”
    Um the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree?! To a sufficient degree; in an evenhanded manner is this who we want in the Senate, representing Wisconsin???!!

  50. Randy in Richmond says:

    Lorax/Others
    Your comments are so typical of the left. You have excoriated Republicans as being racists. You say,

    “Thompson Jr., the off-camera racist, et al. are all responsible for a party that has tacitly embraced racism. That’s what happens when your party relies almost entirely on the Southern states for its base.”

    What a croc of shi*. It was southern ‘Democrats’ that founded, ran, and fostered the Klu Klux Klan. It was southern ‘Democrats’ that enacted and enforced Jim Crow laws on the books. It was southern ‘Democratic’ governors and other elected officials that blocked schoolhouse doors and pushed the “seperate but equal” policy. It was southern ‘Democratic’ leadership that turned firehoses and dogs on civil rights protesters.

    It was a Republican President that sent troops to various universities and public school systems to allow blacks entry. Without the votes of Republicans there would have been no Civil Rights Act of 1964. It was a Democratic Attorney General Robert Kennedy that did not enforce existing Federal laws and “cut deals” as Freedom Riders were persecuted across the south.

    And Lorax, how many black governors have you had in Wisconsin, from either party? How many black Senators? I live in a Southern state and voted for a black governor in 1989.

    But back to the subject of this post. Joe Biden said of candidate Obama,

    “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” Biden said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”

    He’s clean?” How racist can one be?

    The smear campaign and circus that Joe Biden led in the Clarence Thomas hearings was laughable. In 2001 Biden said,” I think that the only reason Clarence Thomas is on the Court is because he is black. I don’t believe he could have won had he been white.”

    And of course there’s this Biden remark:

    “In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking,”.

    In just the past few days Democrats have shown their current and historical view of race over Stacy Dash’s endorsement of Gov. Romney.

    You state,
    “We have a fundamental misunderstanding about what racism is and entails in this country.

    I agree. Your party promoted it, nourished it, fostered it, fed it, lived it, elected it, taught it, encouraged it, governed by it, and historically owns it. Joe Biden continues this legacy.

  51. Randy

    I would argue your Southern Democrats of the past, are the Newt Gingrichs, Rush Limbaughs, and Sean Hannitys of today. They guide your Republican planks; just review what was said at the Rebublican Convention. We’re not dealing with the Republicans of the 1950’s through 1970’s. Everything seems to have changed with the vaunted Ronald Reagan of the 1980’s. So, thus we spawn the Jason Thompsons of 2012.

    Lorax had no part in this, just me. Thanks.

  52. “Not to be morbid, but the only thing that took us past crummy legislation like the Revenue Act of 1935 and into eventual prosperity was a world war.”

    The top marginal income tax rate was over 90% during this prosperity:

    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213

    Yes, there was tax avoidance but top end income (and effective) tax rates were the same, if not higher, during our golden age than in the mid 30’s. If this crummy legislation was so devastating to the nation, we would have slipped back into depression. We didn’t, even after the western European industrial complex was rebuilt.

  53. “Building that infrastructure is what drove those economies.”

    And who paid the bill?

    “Did you bother to research the evolution of soak the rich?”

    Take a good look at the table linked above. Look at income inequality, look at the top end’s share of productivity gains. I want to know what modern day conservatives consider soaking the rich, Brkfld. IMO, no one is even close to doing so.

  54. Randy in Richmond says:

    CHMart
    Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity were elected to what office? They guide the Republican planks? You’re kidding, right? You think either of these supported Mitt Romney? And Jason Thompson holds which elected office? Is running for which office?

    So, thus we spawn the Sowande A. Omokundes, which has to mean, by the logic made here, that Gwen Moore and Michael Pratt are tire slashers.

  55. Just because you have black friends, or a black grandmother, or whatever, doesn’t mean anything about whether or not you’re racist. That’s the point all along.

    P.S. Hope that at the end of all of this you at least got an uptick in hits, Cindy.

  56. BrkfldDad says:

    Lorax, in the end I do have to admit, it must be youth that blinds you to your ignorance. Thanks for the personal insults, they were entertaining at the least.

  57. CHMart – Jason isn’t running for the Senate. I, however, run like hell from most of the stuff my kids say.

    Toss the apple and the tree wishful thinking, please. It’s not doing much for me.

  58. Bdad – NO! I don’t think it needs a good war. I’m just saying historically a world war is the only way to significantly change an economic path. And I said “world” war. Everyone involved.

  59. Gotcha, I was acting global, thinking local 🙂

    But, I think the economic ramifications of a world war in this day and age may be adverse to what we’d want. Not so sure it wouldn’t result in a prolonged worldwide depression.

  60. Randy in Richmond says:

    Yesterday.