Dan Ertl, Director of Community Development for the City of Brookfield, and I might be able to compromise on this city. You see, every building can only be one color, a desert red. That’s the part that Dan would probably like. (Remember repainting Fresh Market on Bluemound?) For me there’s the restriction that no building except for the Mosque can be taller than a palm tree. There’s an added bonus - the cell tower monopoles are fake palm trees that look pretty darn good!
The World Cup is headed here in 2010. (I think that’s the date.) It’s booming. I have a photo of several construction cranes that I’ll put in later.
51 responses so far ↓
1 Dan Harland // Feb 27, 2008 at 1:37 pm
I don’t know if anyone has been paying attention to today’s back and forth quibble between Senators McCain and Obama - but its pretty ridiculous. What disturbs me so greatly is how Barack can smooth talk his way out of dead end road. He was asked by Tim Russert if he would send troops back into Iraq to combat Al Qaeda if they resurfaced after he pulled troops out. Barack responded in the affirmative and then spins it by saying Al Qaeda would never be in Iraq if it weren’t for George Bush and John McCain - and the crowd cheers! HELLO? ANYBODY HOME?
Step 1. Wake Up
Step 2. Remove Wool from over eyes.
Barack just said he would strike again in Iraq on based on information that Al Qaeda was in Iraq. Seems to me that is the current premise of the war on terror in Iraq. Bush Administration sees a chance to eliminate a breeding ground for terrorism under the Hussein regime but according to Barack thats a bad idea - an unjust war, a lie, a farce… his answer? Send troops into Iraq to combat new Iraqi developments and concentrate on caves in Afghanistan and invade Pakistani territory. People cheered for this garbage. Is any one home on this? What foreign policy experience is he backing this crap up with?
2 Dave Frank // Feb 27, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Dan, that would be a good point except for the fact that there is no proof that Iraq was a “breeding ground for terrorism under the Hussein regime.” It just isn’t true.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun16.html
We should focus more on Afghanistan and Pakistan. By the way, we just killed a top Al Qaeda operative in Pakistan.
http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-02-01-voa18.cfm
I don’t think questioning the war is garbage or means you have the wool over your eyes.
3 Dan Harland // Feb 27, 2008 at 4:52 pm
So it would be justifiable for Barack Obama to send troops into an Iraq based on Al Qaeda being there… but it wasn’t justifiable for George Bush to do the same thing? Thats the point Im getting at… because Barack Obama doesn’t say things like “misunderestimate” like Bush, it would make HIS authorized troop presence legit?
4 Kathryn // Feb 27, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Dave’s point was that there were no al qaeda forces in Iraq before we toppled Hussein: zip. Our invasion created both the opportunity and the incentive for their presence there.
5 Dan Harland // Feb 27, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Alright. So what then is Barack’s incentive to pull troops out of Iraq now - just to return on his own terms?
6 Shawn Matson // Feb 27, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Here’s my response:
I’m going to go on fairly long here, but please bear with me.
I wonder how many times it has to be stated, by both civilian experts and military experts that Saddam Hussein was a secular man who didn’t tolerate terrorists (just like he didn’t tolerate anyone who wasn’t aligned with him) and that the nation of Iraq was not involved in terrorist activity. Let’s remember that 15 of the 19 9/11 hijakers were Saudi Natives. I believe the other three came from Egypt and Pakistan.
The 9/11 Comission Report concluded that there had been no link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda.
Do you remember the pictures of Donals RUmsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein? He was our buddy when we needed him to fight Iran. We gave him weapons and had him fight a war against the Iranians that led to millions of deaths.
But wait, back up. We previously gave weapons to Bin Laden to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. Bin Laden won by using the same tactics that are working today: Draining the blood from his enemies, a war of attrition. Bin Laden is a horrible man but he’s not an idiot.
Anyhow, Saddam was our pawn in a war against Iran. When confronted by Bill O’Reilley over whether Saddam was a bad guy, Phil Donaghue said, “Saddam was a bastard–but he was our bastard.” He’s right. Funny how we keep giving weapons to people we end up fighting 20 years later.
All for the military industrail complex. Why does the media support these perpetuating wars? Because NBC, CNBC and MSNBC are owned by General Electic, a parent company that also produces the apache helicopters, abrams tanks, F-16 fighter jets and other equipment used in Iraq. No wonder that General Electric’s media outlets trumpeted for war and saw their military profits skyrocket.
Remember when Rumselfd shook hands with Saddam? We thought he was a swell guy when we sold him weapons and hoped he would invade Iran. He did. Millions died. The USA sat back and reaped the rewards.
When we can’t find someone to do our dirty work for us we do it ourselves (Panama, Grenada, Iraq, Vietnam).
We always have an excuse to deny sovereignty to a nation. If these insurgents are able to cause such chaos in Iraq now, why didn’t they do it when they had that horrible Saddam? Oh wait, we incited them to do it when we invaded Kuwait and we left them high and dry.
This isn’t anything political or partisan for me. Bill Clinton left us in two quagmires: Kosovo and Kuwait. Now that Kosovo has declared independence, we’re grandfathered in to recognizing them and defending them. JFK led us into Vietnam.
100 points to anyone who remembers what region of the world World War I started in? 200 points to me if i’m right in saying ti starts in Serbo-Kosovo.
Now we’re sitting with an issue that has haunted us in the past: entangling baltic alliances that lead to world war. Undeniably, Russia will do something stupid, Kosovo will demand our assistance because we sent them down this road in the first place, and Dan Harland, Greg and Myself will be shipped out to war. Drafted, even.
If Barack Obama invades a country i’ll be out on the streets protesting just as soon as if John McCain does it. I won’t tolerate illegal wars. Has anyone actually read the Public Law apssed by Congress giving Bush the authority to invade Iraq?
It was all predicated on the theory that we would get UN approval and that we were seeking to destroy WMDs. We found no WMDs and the UN refused to participate. Instead we went into Iraq with a coalition of the willing that included 30 troops from Tajikistan.
Our foreign policy will be the demise of this great nation–not because we’re not tough enough on Islamic Extremeists, but because we’re the cannon fodder for their hate and attacks.
7 Shawn Matson // Feb 27, 2008 at 5:59 pm
And for Dan: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q2pXElHV6FA
8 Dan Harland // Feb 27, 2008 at 6:14 pm
I watched that before I ever wrote.
“So… uh… you know, this is how politics works…”
“Thats why we should continue to strike Al Qaeda targets”
“He [John McCain] took us in to war”
It does not make sense - in the same response where he says we need to continue to strike Al Qaeda he says we need to stop the war. So he says he’s going to end the war in Iraq - CHEER CHEER - and then says we need to continue to attack Al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
9 Shawn Matson // Feb 27, 2008 at 7:10 pm
The war in iraq and the war on al qaeda aren’t the same Dan, i think that’s the puzzle piece you’re missing.
10 kathleenm // Feb 27, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Dear Cindy,
Bill and I hope you are having a great photo trip, and hope that you will be able to attend the Elmbrook Humane Society’s fundraiser, Wine&Whiskers, on Saturday, March 8, from 7 to 10 p.m.
Winegirl and her husband promise to attend, and are sponsors, are you are.
We have 160 attendees so far.
Looking forward to seeing you,
K&B
11 El Gato // Feb 27, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Dan, it’s pointless to argue with Bush-hating, liberal Democrats. Dave quote two of the most liberal websites, so you know he is brainwashed and uninformed, and unwilling to learn the truth. I’ve given up arguing and when the “sh*t hits the fan” we’ll know who was right and who was wrong. As for Obama…he has NO real experience and I suspect he is a muslim sympathizer since his daddy is one. We will pay a heavy price if he is elected!
12 Shawn Matson // Feb 27, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Is the 9/11 commission a liberal left-leaning bush-hating institution?
Every source that publishes anything you don’t like you label as a liberal-biased source. Even the conservative think tank the Cato Institute now admits that Iraq is a blunder. How’s that for brainwash?
13 Dave Frank // Feb 27, 2008 at 10:40 pm
El Gato, just so we are clear, are all muslims evil? Because Senator Obama’s father is muslim he is probably a terrorist, right? That is your point isn’t it?
14 Kathryn // Feb 27, 2008 at 11:16 pm
I think Dan asks a fair question. The answer is that al qaeda is only one party to the warfare; there are many others. Right now, we confront the militia du jour because all parties are interested in total control. Al qaeda is one party that Obama regards as a legitamate target, and he figures the others ought to settle their political affairs without hiding behind us any longer. As long as we are willing to take on all comers, we make enemies of many and enable the Iraqi leaders to avoid their responsibilities.
Why make peace when you can hold out and maybe take everything in the end?
15 Kathryn // Feb 27, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Did I get that right, Shawn?
16 El Gato // Feb 28, 2008 at 7:26 am
Dave, that’s not my point. I’m somewhat well-read on Islam and Muslims and I know that only a small percentage (estimated @ 10%) are “radicals”. I also know that a far larger percentage dance in the streets and celebrate when events like 9-11 occur.
I also know that the “radical” Muslims and “radical” Christians are the ones that take their holy books seriously. The moderates are the ones that don’t and they pick and choose what they think is true.
I also know that the goal of Islam is world domination and that will NEVER change. They use any means to advance that goal, so any attempt to negotiate with them is foolish and naive on our part. In this regard Bush is ignorant and uninformed…or just a fool.
Now for my point. Since Obama’s daddy is a Muslim, he would probably have a more tolerant view of Islam than any Christian should. He is on record as saying he would negotiate with them, he is endorsed by Louis Farrakahn, and he attends a church with some suspect doctrines. I think it’s better to be safe than sorry! I believe the Democrats will sell us out when in fact the only thing we should be doing is fighting the terrorists, and stopping the immigration of Muslims. Look at Europe and tell me I’m wrong!
Kathryn, you need to do some reading. All of these groups you refer to are Islamic! They all think non-Muslims must convert, submit to dhimmi status, or be killed according to the Koran and Hadith. They say it plainly and clearly for anyone wise enough to believe it.
17 Shawn Matson // Feb 28, 2008 at 7:52 am
I’ll let you look silly. Read the Qur’ran and get back to us.
18 El Gato // Feb 28, 2008 at 9:08 am
Surah 9:5
Surah 5:51
Surah 3:85
Surah 8:13-17
Hadith 9:57
Hadith 9:50
It’s hard for me to understand why people just won’t accept what the Muslims themselves say and believe if they take Islam seriously. I don’t think there’s anything silly about being aware of the danger that we have faced for 1400 years, and the number of people who have been forced into Islam at the point of the sword. I’ll be gone before it’s as bad here as it is in Europe, but you softies will still be here fighting for your lives!
19 Dan Harland // Feb 28, 2008 at 9:38 am
As a Bible reading Christian, I know there are verses people could pick and choose to make me look like a radical terrorist. El gato, while I tend to agree with some of your sentiments, saying that a “radical” Christian is someone who adheres to the word is nutso - sorry. People are entitled to believe in Islam, its their right, but don’t turn their scripture against them. Perhaps what you lack, Gato, in your anti-muslim sentiments, is faith that God wouldn’t allow for your take-over at the point of a sword.
Shawn - I believe the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan both fall under the heading Global War on Terror.
20 El Gato // Feb 28, 2008 at 9:51 am
It’s hard to believe that anyone would stick up for Islam! I guess it’s because they aren’t informed, and they haven’t faced their persecution. One thing is for sure and is not debatable. If one claims to be a Christian, you have to stand against the dark forces that are Islam. If Muhammed actually had a vision, the messenger was not an angel of God but rather a demonic angel. Jesus said that if you’re not with him you’re against him. You can argue that point with Him. I just happen to accept that as the truth, and I’m concerned enough for my grandchildren not to be naive and look the other way.
I will say that in my emperical experience, most people are uninformed and unaware of most things that affect our culture and society. Their opinions are based on falsehoods, propaganda, misconceptions, emotions, and sloth when it comes to becoming knowledgeable. Generally speaking the younger you are the less you know about civics, etc. and the older you are the more likely you are stuck with the mindset of days long gone.
I’m trying to make this intellectual and not personal. so please express FACTS to support your position that Islam is acceptable.
21 Kathryn // Feb 28, 2008 at 10:03 am
El Gato, you are right in that all of the combatants in Iraq, except for US, are Muslims. They aren’t fighting over who has to convert, nor who gets to control New Jersey.
Christians, Jews, Muslims have this in common: those who get it try to practice the law of love, those who don’t get it are a mixed bag, and those who get it wrong can be militant and dangerous. As Scout Finch says, “Folks are folks.”
22 Dave Frank // Feb 28, 2008 at 10:10 am
Well here is my first effort to show that in the United States of America the practice of Islam is acceptable:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
By the way I think we have come full circle and you have proven my point, which is that you believe all muslims are evil. Also if you believe the whole world should be Christian, how do you distinguish yourself from the muslims you so eagerly deride….
23 El Gato // Feb 28, 2008 at 10:14 am
Kathryn, I want to keep this non-personal, but I must tell you that you know NOTHING about Islam. It is a religion of nothing but works righteousness, hopelessness, and hatred. The concept of love does NOT appear in any of their teachings. You must seriously do some research on the internet. Bear in mind I’m talking about Islam and not Muslims! Also bear in mind that Islamists are not going to tell you the truth about what they believe about spreading Islam and the status of infidels. That would only turn us against them. Just look at history with an open and realistic mind. Look at the twenty or so conflicts in the world today and you see they are all Islamists trying to take control. There is NO comparison to Islam and Christianity/Judaism, and Allah is NOT a “god of love”. This is my last comment because those who don’t want to believe won’t, and the truth remains the truth.
24 Kathryn // Feb 28, 2008 at 10:35 am
I’m glad you aren’t indicting Muslims, but you aren’t talking about Islam as people practice it either; you are talking about militants, a fraction of one percent of adherents to the faith. The other billion of them are not going to bother you for being a Christian. Gato, you need to get out and meet the neighbors.
25 Dan Harland // Feb 28, 2008 at 11:21 am
Gato, how can you refer to Islam, but not Muslims? Muslims are the followers of Islam. Christians are to Christianity what Muslims are to Islam.
Since you study Arabic you might know that the word muslim could be translated as “one who has religious faith or peity”.
Gato please don’t give Christians a bad name by spewing hateful doctrine. If I encountered a Muslim in the street I wouldn’t turn and run, fearing he had a scarab tucked into his blue jeans - I may on the other hand engage him in a theological discussion based on my views of the Bible. The Bible does not teach ignorance - and frankly that is exactly what you are saying it does. As Christians it is our obligation to live a Christ-like life and share that Love with others seeking out new converts. How would you do that if you are continually running away from whats out there?
26 Dan Harland // Feb 28, 2008 at 11:24 am
I know its not the authority on Islam, but wikipedia has this to offer:
* Muslim — submitter [to god]
* Mu’min — believer
* Fasiq — open sinner
* Fajir — sinner (by action)
* Kafir — concealer of the truth
* Munafiq — hypocrite
There are Munafiq’s among us.
27 Winegirl // Feb 28, 2008 at 11:29 am
We need the Spanish Inquisition again.
28 Dan Harland // Feb 28, 2008 at 11:38 am
You start the neo-inquisition movement, Gato has the Crusades covered.
29 Kathryn // Feb 28, 2008 at 11:38 am
This is getting personal. Who among us has not ‘munafiqed’ on occasion?
30 Dan Harland // Feb 28, 2008 at 11:47 am
Sorry, no more Gato talk. It just rattles me that he hitches to my conservative-republican wagon, and then gives a “christian” discourse on Islam. I just don’t happen to agree with the way he displays his beliefs and makes all followers of Islam out to be criminals and christian-haters.
31 Cheesehead // Feb 28, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Mr. El Gato I suggest you don’t bother to try to prove anything to those who are ignorant and think they know something. It’s obvious to me that the ones defending Islam are neither informed or what they think they are. I learned long ago that you can lead at horse to water, etc. The dumb like to be dumb! Let it go, and by the way I happen to agree with most things you say but I’m not going to try to convince the leftwing.
32 Dave Frank // Feb 28, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Agreed Dan. I think we have all engaged in a healthy and interesting discussion here. It is unfortunate one person can derail an otherwise civil discussion.
33 Kathryn // Feb 28, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Cheesehead, I’ve been married to a Muslim for 20 years and have studied the Bible even longer. I think I have a passing familiarity with both faiths. Don’t tasse me bro!
34 BrkfldDad // Feb 28, 2008 at 1:44 pm
On another topic… anyone else notice that all of Flessas’ blogs on MyCommunityNow that are less than a year old have been deleted and that publictrough.blogspot.com is no longer an active blog? He sure loved to turn up the heat/rhetoric on others, now that its on him he hides!
35 Cheesehead // Feb 28, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Kathryn, I might surmise that you are the same kind of Christian that your spouse is a Muslim. You can be best described by John’s admonition to the Laodicean church in Rev. 3:14. A “passing familiarity” probably describes you quite well and YOU said it.
Dave has previously revealed his ilk and deserves no recognition.
36 Dan Harland // Feb 28, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Last I checked Cheesehead/Gato are not God! To those type of believers who would snap-judge a Muslim in the street, how do you know it wasn’t in God’s infinitely wise plan for you to stop, give that fellow man a courteous greeting, show him your life of love and mercy and have that person persuaded to follow Christ?
37 Shawn Matson // Feb 28, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Wait, so El gato is a Muslim! “one who submits to god.”
It’s easy to rattle the sabre and to say “you’re either with us or against us.” It’s those kind of naive black and white outlooks that got us into this boondoggle in Iraq.
A black-and-white world view is less developed and sophisticated. Dan has proved here that, despite our disagreements on just about everything, he can recognize the nuance of an issue.
Fundamentalist Christians bomb abortion clinics, started the crusades, and do lots of unsavory things. So do you think that MAYBE the way El Gato sits and picks out the worst in Islam is how some Muslims pick out the worst in Christianity?
Try to transcend you’re own bias as an American and see how it might be from their point of view. El Gato, I reckon you’d go mad if Iran stationed “peaceful” troops in the Vatican or Jerusalem. We’ve done the same to them with putting bases in Muslim holy land.
It’s funny how suddenly when i’m not the only person standing against your point, you don’t have much to say other than to reidicule people’s knowledge of the sitution.
Kathryn, obviously you’re a total idiot because you don’t completely agree. And Dan, give me a break, you must be blind! Except not. Democracy is predicated on a system of nuance and dissent. When you try to crush others viewpoints and make ad hominem attacks, the terrorists win because it undermines Democracy.
38 Kathryn // Feb 28, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Tazed me! Ouch!
(How is that supposed to be spelled anyway?)
Maybe we should lighten up….
39 Dan Harland // Feb 28, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Here’s something to lighten up with:
Thank God for soldiers as committed as ours!
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/WaterCooler/story?id=4358724
40 Dan Harland // Feb 28, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Here is another piece I found pretty interesting. From a guy like Bob Geldof, who I dont know much about except for Live 8, its a nice little read. It shows the type of criticism of the President that I respect. Although Geldof’s ideals differ with Bush’s he doesn’t write him off as an idiot or bloodthirsty war monger like so many have today. A few posts back, a question was raised regarding what noteworthy things has George W. Bush done in office. Geldof’s piece shows a side of Bush’s administration that will forever be overshadowed by fractioned views regarding Iraq. I’d urge people to read this:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1717934-3,00.html
41 Kathryn // Feb 28, 2008 at 9:01 pm
That is a nice piece, Dan. If you didn’t happen to catch Bono at the National Prayer Breakfast last year, you should look it up. It was pretty cool, too.
42 Dan Harland // Feb 28, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Wow. Pretty powerful stuff from Ireland’s finest. I constantly think about how American History students of the future will look back on the last 8 years. Hopefully the charity that has gone into Africa in recent years will not be overlooked entirely!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-02-02-bono-transcript_x.htm
43 Shawn Matson // Feb 29, 2008 at 12:26 am
I agree Dan
44 Dan Harland // Feb 29, 2008 at 4:04 pm
So….bored….Cindy come back!
45 Joe // Feb 29, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Shawn,
Thanks for taking the time to spell out the facts in your response #6. Your comments on corporations and who really benefits from the wars are a rare heard. I often wonder why that is not discussed in the mainstream media.
I applaud your efforts but I fear your words are wasted. “True believers” will never be dissuaded from the belief that their country and this president are beyond reproach.
This ridiculous, yet likely true quote from the barkingdingo blog: - “…three out of every ten Americans will never get past denial and could watch Bush eat a baby on live TV and still think he is the greatest president ever.”
Google, “935 Lies” Bush, and take a look at the chart of the data - at least they took some time off for Christmas! Thank God.
In Bush’s own words: “catapulting the propaganda”
However, blaming Bush is like blaming Hitler. There are thousands perhaps millions of meglomaniacs attempting to remake the world and harm people in the process. It’s the corporatist media leading the sheeple to the shearing and the slaughter. Wake up before the forklift pokes you…
3 Trillion added to a 9 Trillion Debt to fund a 100 Year War - McCain ‘08!
Pretty soon that adds up to real money. Too bad we can’t afford Universal Health Coverage….
46 Kathryn // Feb 29, 2008 at 4:12 pm
“Four legs good; two legs baa-aad.”
—the sheeple
47 Cheesehead // Feb 29, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Joe, you’re a imbecile!
48 Shawn Matson // Feb 29, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Aren’t we all? Well, we’re all cheeseheads.
49 Cheesehead // Mar 1, 2008 at 5:09 pm
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57683
50 Shawn Matson // Mar 1, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Well I am cuckoo for Democrats!
51 Dan Harland // Mar 3, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Cheesehead, please don’t make all the rational conservatives out there look like morons. I think thats the second time someone has posted on Liberals and Mental Disorders.
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